I know this is an extremely controversial topic because everyone has a different opinion on whats “easy, difficult, fun and boring” but I think it goes without saying there are some classes that come to mind when you think of “strong” for the amount of work you need to put in.
My question is why are people so bent on touching classes like JD, Kait, Keegan or Fahz when you can easily still wipe with those classes with randoms? There is nothing from stopping a Guardian from flying into the base from your blindspot and mowing down your entire team down before you can say bacon. It’s a BS death but its possible. Same as a tri-shot DR-1 coming out of nowhere or a lancer drone or an elite drone.
Just like solo players dislike stacks, PvE players hate randoms. There are more randoms in PvE than there are groups from what I’ve seen. Otherwise the balance for classes would be completely different.
I’ll prolly regret this topic but oh well, I wanted to talk about it.
The belief when they don’t use those classes and still win the game, being the elite player, calling myself "I’m so strong, I’m better than you. You’re bad taste in playing those classes, such poor you’re ", but in fact those are the savage players.
To explain more, general base players are quite bad in understanding how the classes work for, so they mostly choose to play those “easy” classes like demo, marksman, tactician, slugger, but the old players, specifically means to well-experienced players, are such ironic to imply those players, playing those “easy” classes, and laugh at them saying “They just know how to play easy classes, but even they play easy classes, they play very trash”
Another reason for the hate of strong classes because they have encountered bad experience playing with randoms and they perform badly most of the time.
Some players may want a “challenge”, simply saying high skill classes only to play for PvE content. They find meaningless when there’re some players playing those clauses and dominate every wave. The assumption is that they don’t care if the game is gonna win or lose, they just want to use high skilled classes to get success in the game because they can win every game using those easy classes, which is highly being too dull to play.
However, those “easy” classes are the hardest to master with.
People hate strong classes mostly because they want to laugh at them playing such trash.
People hate strong classes because randoms usually perform badly in those classes.
People hate strong classes because there’s no remaining meaning to win the game using strong classes. It means that they have won many times before, so they set up a “challenge” for not having strong classes.
So why is it always a challenge? Why can’t it be "I really enjoy the boomshot as a weapon, I like JD. Why must it always be Blademaster as the reference for a difficult class? BM is hard but it feels like that is literally everyones go to when comparing JD to something more challenging, Its quite funny lol.
This literally can apply to ANYTHING. ask @HerrKatzchen who is an amazing Blademaster (since everyone likes to use this class as the difficult standard) that he is so comfortable with Lahni that if you put a controller in his hands while hes sleep he could probably MVP each round.
I appreciate you answering from a general stand point but I guess I’m more asking from a personal perspective.
I think its good to accept them really and not just isolate something. This mostly applies to randoms though, I understand if you took 5 forum members with strong classes the odds of failure are much lower.
everything is repetitive lol. Not fair to limited that to certain things. Only things I will truly say are annoying is trying to play a precision class and someone is spamming salvos or GLs. your entire screen shakes making it almost impossible to land shots.
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘bent on touching’, that phrase is unfamiliar to me. But given the thread title, I assume you mean dislike playing with those classes?
The simple answer is because they’re over-powered. It’s not so bad having one of them in a team, but when you get all three, such as Tactician, Demo and Marksman the game becomes boring for everyone else. It really isn’t much different to an Engineer making loads of level 4 sentries—that becomes very boring too.
I have a friend who refuses to have a Marksman, Tactician or Demo in the team because it makes the game too easy.
There isn’t. But i’m not sure I see your point? Random disasters can happen at any time to any team good, bad, strong or weak. It’s not class dependent. It’s a lot more to do with situational awareness of one of more of the team members than class strength or weakness.
And there’s a very good reason why they’re universally hated—they do stupid things. They play as individuals rather than as team members, it’s a team game!!!
I don’t even like when people use Marksman in Escape anymore either. That class is so absurdly strong that it’s ridiculous. Quite a bore.
Today’s daily was the Extra Strong Enemies but you got your ult faster with damage done. I used Marksman for the first time in forever. I wave-cleared just about every wave because I would get my ult back instantly. That class is nuts dude.
Firstly, I get the sense there is some elitism when we talk about meta and non-meta approaches to PVE classes. Some players are extremely elitist and use it as an opportunity to poo-poo over less skilled and less experienced players over their reliance on “meta” classes like Demolitions etc.
Secondly, amongst these less skilled and less experienced players they can be so dependent on the “meta” classes that they instantly reject classes which they deem to be unorthodox. Some hosts will refuse to start a game and will kick the last person to join until they get the class(es) they want (e.g.:Demolitions).
I think the truth is somewhere in between. What some of the high level elitist players need to recognise is that perhaps YOU can clear a master Horde/Escape game using non-meta classes, but can the other player if they are not as skilled? Some players have the will and the potential to learn and improve. But like most learning, our rate of learning eventually slows down and we plateau. Some players for what ever reason are not able to learn anymore than they already have so are not able to learn how to effectively play a new different class. Also some players are just more accustomed to certain classes. I’ve seen players who are great at one class, but very bad with another.
Amongst my friends, I play with a range of abilities. Some of them are very good players, some are.less so, and some have moments where they are woeful. I consider myself to be a solid and decent player, but I have my limits. But when I play with the less strong friends, I don’t often feel confident going in without at least one stronger “meta” class because my own abilities will only go so far. I will also be prone to making the occasional mistake as well. I can’t be micromanaging my friends and what they do in order to win games. So as a result sometimes I end up filling the gap by playing one of these meta classes to reduce the likelihood of us failing. For sure, we still sometimes do fail, but it’s just a probability thing. And having one or two meta strong classes enables others to play as a less orthodox classes to level up or experiment with.
Also even if some classes are super strong and require less skill (or are higher risk), there is a massive variation in ability even amongst say, Demolitions players. I’ve seen some truly woeful ones who don’t know how to play this class effectively at all - it’s nothing but GL spamming and dropping Artillery Strikes on single enemies and are repeatedly downed. There’s no thought behind it. Whereas good Demolitions players are more aware of their surroundings, can avoid getting shot to pieces and are more resourceful with their ammo and usage of their ultimate and mark multiple enemies across the map to maximise the effect.
I played that on 1-50 Incon with two Demos, so you can imagine what that was like? In fairness the whole team (except me) were re-up 10 or lower so I was kind of babysitting them as a Combat Medic. They all did pretty well for their experience levels.
I’m actually glad you made this statement that “having all three becomes boring”
I can totally understand that. When you have the big wigs on the block all come together things can be less entertaining for sure. You’ve convinced me in this area.
You are completely executing yourself to a way of playing simply because you think its too easy. If your friend plays with the intention of challenge 24/7 then that’s fine I guess but as someone who enjoys the Longshot as a Weapon I find satisfaction out of using Marksman. I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying you enjoy holding insane amounts of power vise versa but you literally only hear it being one sided most of the time.
okay but that disaster can vary depending on the class. Each class will perform differently in those situations, some not so great as others. I get what you mean though, this isn’t really something you can blame on the class itself.
My view is simple.
Play as whoever you want as long as the daily modifiers don’t nerf said class into the ground.
You can run whatever skill cards you want seeing as we can’t see them but if the build works for you then thats fine. Not everyone is going to min/max with Level 6 cards.
Now this doesn’t mean I would want to play with them again. I think it has to do with the fact I play Frenzy so it isn’t 2hours of my life trying to carry players by their bootstraps.
But there are other classes you can play that uses the longshot? Anchor, Nomad both do well with it without the infuriating explosive headshot splash damage the Marksman gets that effectively wipes the map.
Have you ever seen a Marksman operating in tandem with a Veteran and both using their ults at the same time?
No it’s not class dependent. It’s situational awareness. Yes, some classes are better able to deal with Sentinel/Guardians than others but it’s not much good if those classes or any other class simply doesn’t identify and deal with the biggest threats. That’s really my point.
I go ballistic sometimes with players when they ignore the boomshot scion! That threat is one of the biggest in the game and they need to be dealt with quickly or they have the capability of wiping you all out with one or two shots.
If I was to be really specific, I would argue the case that a fair number of players don’t know how to revive team mates. I’m a firm believer in the philosophy that a team wipe starts with one person going down. And when one person goes down, frankly you’re still a long way from wiping. A wipe occurs as a result of multiple errors within a fairly short space of time. I would say that a wipe is never down to one error; or one individual player. There will always be opportunities to rescue the situation where one player is down. But if poor decisions are made, then one downed player can quickly become two or three.
And I don’t mean this in a functional sense - we all know how to press the corresponding button to revive someone.
But there’s an art to reviving team mates safely, and this is what I see lots of people lack understanding about. I see lots of team mates run out to revive team mates without really thinking, so they get downed in the process. Another rookie error which I see over and over, is if a team mate is downed next to an enemy, someone will revive them anyway and that team mate, or both get punched down all over again. It’s pretty pointless.
As you say, situational awareness if a biggie. In GOW5 the time it takes for you to bleed out is much longer; and the PVE enemies don’t execute us as quickly as in GOW4 (Scions aside); and Drones do the whole beat-down thing which takes even more time.
I think people need to stop and think; and evaluate their options. How safe is your downed team mate’s position? Is it too open? Are there enemies nearby or who have a firing line to that position?
In many cases the downed team mate can be left for a while if necessary. There’s usually not that much rush to revive them. There are normally multiple options. A few pointers which I don’t see enough people utilise:
If an enemy is close to a downed team mate, what enemy is it and what weapon are they using? If it’s a slow firing weapon, can you time your run and revive inbetween shots? Grenadiers, Boomers and Dropshots fire slowly and it’s pretty predictable. But often I see people time their run/revive totally wrong and get downed straight away.
Not enough people use grenades resourcefully enough to support reviving team mates. There’s the flashbang trick for when a team mate is being beaten down by Drone-style enemies; or stunning them outright while you go for a revive. Alternatively smokes break enemy sightlines and gunfire; and throwing a shock grenade in the right spot (sometimes directly at a downed but crawling team mate) will prevent enemies from executing your team mate; and will momentarily stop them from firing while you move in for a revive.
Sometimes a revive is too risky, and you will have to ignore your team mate and kill the nearest threats first before reviving them. This has some risks in itself as if you mess up and go down too, then you’re both up the creek, so to speak.
Often I see players who have just been revived, retreat in a really obvious and panicked manner. They run in a straight line through the open and get downed again. It’s a cover-based shooter and people ought to use cover. After a revive or getting revive, you can sometimes slow down and evaluate options for your next move.
A well-placed headshot on a Swarm Grenadier will knock their helmet off, and that can give you an opening to revive a team mate too.
If worst comes to worst, it’s sometimes better to let a Drone-style enemy start the beat-down animation on a downed team mate before you step in to help. This takes that Drone out of the equation as a threat. Obviously this can be risky as on rare-ish occasions Drone-style enemies will just melee or shoot a downed person to death, but if the revive is too risky then it’s too risky. It’s just one of those things.
Daily Horde Frenzy Master is really the only challenge left this game has, so that being said, using whatever character gets the job done is what ultimately matters.
And you’re 100% right, you can still easily wipe no matter what class you have, if their isn’t any synergy within the team.
Blademaster is a really tough character to really get good at. For me to make her fun and challenging I never use breaker maces, as they make a play through easily, to an instinct. Playing her without mace on a open board, and on master, an you can have all the challenge your looking for in a game.