Why does it seem so expensive for Jack to repair?

Does he have a penalty to repair costs or something? I swear that when I buy a Repair Tool on a non-engi class it doesn’t cost thousands of power to fix a single fortification.

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It’s the Speed brother. Jack heals very quickly so it looks like it costs more.

Compare it with the slow speed of the non eng repair. And it’s still more for non Eng.

Hope that helps.

It’s not the speed. Jack does have a penalty to repair costs for some reason.

Repairing a destroyed level 1 decoy as Mechanic with no cards equipped: 690 power spent total
Repairing the same thing from the same state but as Jack: 1275 power spent.

This is approx. a 85% increase.

Slightly off topic, but being somewhat of a horde noob I have what may be a stupid question. Oh well, here goes. Is it worth it to perk up repair cost perks in a frenzy? How much power would you spend perking that up compared to how much you’d spend doing normal repairs, if you know what I mean. I believe Jack and all Engis have the perk, but I haven’t been putting many points into it if any at all.

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Well,

Guess this was changed. I am out of touch with anything current within the last 2 months.

Honestly I don’t remember this being a thing before. But could be wrong.

Don’t happen to have any data on it do ya?

Interesting…

Let me see what’s going on there for you.

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Nope. But I just tested it in a private lobby to make sure I’m not wrong and the results were noticably different. I don’t think there was a possibility for human mistakes.

I used the repair tool on the yellow hologram of the decoy and also the same with Jack’s healing beam, then wrote down the power cost that showed up on my HUD. To make sure it’s correct, I calculated what my power should have been by comparing it to the starting amount and just substracting the cost of the decoy etc. It all added up correctly.

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Oh I gotcha man,

I’m very curious about this also. Well since I’m doing an all Jack challenge tonight I’ll check it also but it looks like we may get more on it soon.

I just did some testing of my own in a private lobby. Here were my results for fully repairing a destroyed level 3 Barrier:

Jack: 3,426 Power
Robotics Expert: 1730
Gunner: 1940

Jack seems to have a 275% penalty to repair costs going by the Gunner results. Naturally the Robotics Expert was cheaper than the Gunner because even with no cards it still has the passive discount to build costs. I also tested Jack with and without the Repair Speed card, the results were nearly identical (3,425 Power, which I’m guessing is down to rounding errors).

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As promised I chased up.

This is was actually the original design and has functioned this way since the game’s release.

Engineers are designed to be your dedicated repair people, whereas Jack’s secondary function does involve repairing which is why his base repair cost is higher.

I hope this helps clear it up!

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Alright, well, that’s a terrible design. I could see the justification that other non-engineer classes need to invest 5000 Power in buying a repair tool before they can actually repair, but they’ll pull ahead of Jack in terms of power efficiency after fully repairing just a handful of fortifications. It essentially punishes players for taking advantage of one of the class’s built-in features. If nothing else his Repair Cost perk should be majorly buffed.

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Hahahahah… PERFECT TC answer… Gives you SOME truth, but completely bypasses the main point… perfect double speak.

Why does it cost MORE for JACK to repair something than it costs for a non-Engineer to repair something?? THAT was the question…

So comparing an Engineer’s cost to Jack is to side step answering the question… Whoo hooo… New Community Manager carries on the torch perfectly, I see…

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It’s much worse than that. You’re forgetting that the Mechanic has a 15% discount on initially rebuilding fortifications, while Jack has no discounts or penalties for building and pays normal price. Accounting for that and comparing the costs of just the repairs, Jack’s costs are 375% that of the Mechanic.

I don’t see why penalizing repairing as Jack is a good idea at this point. TC has seen the value of reducing dependence on an engineer in other aspects, and this mechanic seems like like a holdover from their previous philosophy.

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Cheesus you guys have problems… and it also took you over a year to figure it out.

Well the official TC response is there already. Besides, you’re aware that Jack can literally repair from behind a wall (was majorly “abused” back in the days on Exhibit)? Of course they have to give him a disadvantage.

Also since OP5, power management really isn’t an issue anymore, neither in regular nor in Frenzy. You don’t even need an Engineer even on Master.

Jack shouldn’t be used to repair stuff anyways. His offensive build just way outweights any other build. Now with the bleeding card especially.

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Well, I can see it from both sides. It does at first seem crazy that Jack is even more expensive than a standard character class. But then again:

  • Jack will always be able to repair, even if he dies and gets revived at the fab. If another, non-engineer class dies, they lose the repair tool which means another 5,000 purchase at the fab. In a high difficulty game, that could be quite likely, which means it could still be more expensive.

  • Jack can repair from a great distance. Everyone else has to be be standing basically on top of the fort to do it.

  • Jack can have repair speed greatly increased through one of his cards. Non engineer classes repair extremely slowly. In high level difficulty games you just aren’t going to have time to do it, either during or between waves, if you don’t have the speed increase.

  • Jack doesn’t give up a potentially precious weapon slot to have the repair function. If an Anchor or Nomad gets a repair tool, then say goodbye to bloody or stunning boltok shots.

  • Lastly if players have made the decision to run a game without an engineer, they’re clearly doing a perk and DPS strategy anyway, in which case you shouldn’t be buying too many forts. If you are doing a Frenzy game there should be enough power for you all to buy everything you need. If you are doing a 50 wave game then you’re probably using an engineer and also probably using a forge for Jack.

So , whilst I’d never really thought about it until now, I actually think it isn’t as crazy as we might think on the surface.

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I agree.

JACK can repair things from range and nowadays can still partially do it behind walls (for short periods). It may cost more but it’s at a reasonable speed and is supposed to be a secondary backup thing.

Engineer > JACK > Other class + repair tool

Also I’m surprised some people didn’t know about the increased cost. I thought it was extremely obvious. Appreciate the more precise figures of course, but the cost stood out like a sore thumb and I knew from early on that JACK’s shouldn’t repair unless absolutely necessary. JACK’s role from Op1-4 was always to smelt weapons and generate money; and to heal and revive people; and now in Op 5 Hijack is much more powerful so JACK has plenty to keep him busy.

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Jeez, you guys sound like you have Stockholm Syndrome, defending this penalty. Do you really think being able to repair from a few extra feet away, or repair for about a second without line of sight, or not having to spend 5000 power to buy a repair tool, or any of his minor advantages, justifies him spending nearly 4x the power on repairs? Don’t be silly. None of that is worth a 3.75x penalty.

This is clearly something left over from the early days of Horde 4.0, Remember power taps having half the health, giving half the power, taking twice as long to secure and five full seconds to gather power from? Remember when perks were like half as strong and twice as expensive? Remember being unable to play Horde on a difficulty above Beginner without it being Iron Man, and it being impossible to get legendary or epic skill cards without playing on the higher difficulties? Remember things like Fahz only getting explosive headshots during his ultimates, Juvies and Leeches just walking through Mac’s Lethal Barrier, or Baird’s DR-1 being out for half as long and doing half the damage during that time? Nearly every aspect of Horde mode used to be just plain worse before TC finally started buffing things with an eye towards fun. Jack’s penalty is just another facet of Horde that’s still using the old, bad design philosophy from launch.

The only reason Jack shouldn’t be repairing is because of the cost. If the price was more sane, it’d be a perfectly acceptable thing for him to do. There’s no enemies for him to attack between waves, after all, and not every Jack runs the Forge card.

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Hmm, perhaps the cost is a little too high, but my biggest surprise is that it took the community 16 months to figure this out. I’m surprised people took so long on this.

I do think the cost is too high, but I don’t think reducing the cost would make much difference really. I know this isn’t the overarching point, but what difference is it going to make really?

I wouldn’t be bothered if the cost was a little higher than a repair tool (maybe like 10/15%), to offset the cost of investment for people buying repair tools and to give incentive to buy the repair cost perk, and I do think it should be reduced.

My goodness it took 16 months for this to pop up in conversation. Can’t imagine some of the other stuff.

What a ridiculous notion.
Please, let us know everything else about how Jack should or shouldn’t be played according to your play style. Sounds like Jack belongs in the ASSAULT rather than SUPPORT category.

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