I imagine that if you’re going to be using heavy weapons you’ll want to use cards that favor it more, right? Mulcher Mastery/Heavy Capacity/Heavy Charger and maybe Bait Armor? It could be used for both builds I guess but having the first 3 don’t favor torque bow.
Are you talking 1-50, or Frenzy? You don’t need Heavy Capacity in Frenzy to use the Mulcher. It basically just lets you get away with buying the Mulcher or Trishot one wave early. You get more waves out of it in 1-50, but either way once the Gunner’s ammo regen is at 10 you shouldn’t be running out of ammo even without Capacity. Serrated Edge is good even with a Mulcher or Trishot build because it keeps you from being useless against Wardens.
I’m kinda torn with my selection here because Clayton has so many good cards that it’s hard to pick…At the end of the day I just want what’s best for DPS.
Something I wanted to ask is what is the difference between Heavy Shell and Reflective Shell? Heavy Shell says projectiles so does that mean anything that isn’t a melee? Reflective Shell damage states ballistic damage but couldn’t that far under projectile? Also sorta confused on the “for 6s” part.
Sorry for all the questions but I’m just curious as all.
Would you say the damage output is similar to Lv6 Mulcher Mastery or are you sacrificing damage for range with Tri-Shot? Regardless of your answer I understand your reasoning. You aren’t the first person to tell me this actually and this kinda sells me a bit more on using tri-shot over Mulcher.
By default, Reflective Shell will only reflect damage from hitscan attacks; that is, shots that land as soon as the weapon is fired. Anything with a travel time needs Heavy Shell to be reflected. There is some weirdness regarding the enemies’ held weapons that blurs it a little, but not much.
Depends on modifiers and map
I used to just be a gunner with the cards that give me and my team damage resistance and i dont really need capacity since i get the ammo regen, with this build i can tank several of the balistic bosses and get my ult very quickly over and over, i kind of felt OP most of the time
I have been experimenting with hybrid, i still use the dam res for myself and of course i always use shredder card, i then use the torque card along with the stun card and sometimes i choose either the ultimate CD card or the team dmg res card, typically use the trishot so that way i dont need the mulcher card, ill use my torque and then switch to the salvo when enemies or bosses are near and i pretty much just take my time shooting so they are continuously stunned
6 seconds is the base duration of the Gunner’s ult. Heavy Shell as a skill card is tuned to that and does not extend with the ult if you get the ult duration perk leveled. (It probably should but that’s a different subject.)
I personally primarily use Heavy Shell with my builds because for the Torque Bow focused one, I don’t really see what else I would use in the 5th card slot, and for the Mulcher build I see it as useful to throw Boomshots back at Scions, or Salvos at a DR-1 because it’s kind of not easy to tank those shots, and I don’t see much need to have Heavy Charger when you basically get the ult back by shredding a single Scion.
Have not tried doing a hybrid build as going one way or the other is pretty much sufficient on its own and I saw no real benefit to doing it. Like sure, maybe you have better utility against Torque Bow enemies and snipers using the Torque but anything else still goes down easily to either the Mulcher or the ult, besides boss enemies(excluding Kestrel if it suicides against your ult). Limitedly you could also just consider Wardens as a thing the heavy weapon isn’t good for dealing with when they hide their ugly face behind their drumsticks, but that’s nothing a flash or two won’t solve. Or someone else capable of stunning/nuking it to the moon.
Edit : As for which one is “better”, there’s no straightforward answer. Heavy weapons is great for tanking fire from most regular enemies besides explosives and snipers(or an ambitious Bolter/Grenadiers at very close range or with the Boltok out) and getting through a Guardian/Sentinel shield. I’ve laughed at Mulcher Scions on the last few waves of a Frenzy because they could simply not outdamage the healing provided by my own Mulcher. Just make sure you kill them before it completely overheats or to have your ult back by the time it does.
Meanwhile the Torque focused build is more suited to long range but also works close because anything that gets close is stunned and you still have the ult to throw at enemies at regular intervals too. Plus the Torque explosion staggers pretty much every non-boss enemy even outside of the Concussive Explosives range. Otherwise you can use frags as an improvised area stun as well. Generally ignore the Salvo for stunning now because it’s somewhat unnecessary in my experience. Torque can perma stun just as well and as mentioned, you can use frags for area stunning, though Boom or Dropshot as secondary also work well for this purpose.
I personally would rather use torque bows only over the mulcher because having the ability to make enemies bleed and stun them simultaneously is a sight to behold. I also prefer to be mobile at all times. Carrying a heavy weapon like the mulcher will just slow down my momentum. Many people have different playstyles for the Gunner, but I like to play aggressively. So the torque bow build suits me well. The cards I use are Reflect Shredder, Serrated Edge, Bait Armor, Concussive Explosives and Heavy Shell.
I never use Trishot, I find the cooldown annoying and the Mulcher just does better damage,
More Damage = More healing via your passive.
Mulcher also synergizes with Heavy Charger, so you get your ultimate more frequently.
You can go head to head with a Mulcher Scion and win, as you get 60% dmg resistance plus the healing from the Mulcher. I see people waste their ultimate just to kill a Mulcher Scion.
Mulcher Build needs a way to deal with Boomshot Scions, Wardens, and distant Therons, So bring something for that. Mulcher does nothing to a Warden for some reason. Bleeding Torque works well on these enemies.
I’ve only used Heavy Shell a few times, but it requires a Boomshot to directly hit your person which certainly doesn’t always happen. I should try using it more. As far as I’ve heard, it tends to have issues sending the Boomshot directly back to the sender (same with Swarmak rockets)
I used the Torque build on today’s Dawn daily with Freeze Resist + Bait Armor and it works beautifully. Freezing Rifles barely tickle you.
I just replace Mulcher damage with Torque Bow damage.
Basically, my heavy weapons aren’t the big damage dealers. My ult is. The Torque bleed is way too good to pass up since you can use it early and then on bosses, and using heavy weapons is really just to recharge my ult then use it. Once I’m perked up, I’m using my ult twice a wave and just shooting my Mulcher/Trishot in between.
There’s no easy straight forward answer to this as a lot depends on your own personal play style and how good a player you are with either heavy weapons or the TB. A player who is good with the TB will likely out damage and out kill an average heavy weapon gunner and vice versa.
Personally, I don’t like heavy weapons and prefer the TB, so my gunner is built around this.
Practice Every Day
Reflect Shredder and Heavy shell are for the ultimate, Serrated Edge, Concussive Explosives and Practice Every Day for the TB.
As an anecdote I played this Gunner build on a Bunker daily Master a while ago and out damaged and out killed a Demo who had 2 lockers full of salvos, 2 full of boomshots and 2 full of GL’s with my three TB’s.
Being able to stun and bleed at the same time is a very effective combination.
It’s not really possible to run a hybrid build as you have to weaken one or the other and then miss out on the strengths of either. Best in my opinion to pick a build, either heavy weapon or TB and create a build around that.
My most preferred playstyle with Clayton is the Cryo build.
Freezed Bosses are very fast down, if your teammates shoot on them.
I mean you need always someone, who shoots on your freezed once, but that‘s teamplay.
The Gunner is a really versatile class. I guess it really depends on what the map is, mutators (if it’s a daily challenge), your team mates, and what your personal preference is.
The only two cards I ALWAYS equip, are Bait Armor; and Reflective Shredder. The rest is changeable depending on what role I want to fulfil.
Pretty much all Gunner builds will be a hybrid of two styles anyway (at least from an offence perspective) as you don’t need many cards for each like some other classes. For a Torque build you only use Serrated Edge and possibly Concussive Explosives. For a Mulcher build you use the Mulcher Mastery card plus potentially Heavy Capacity and/or Heavy Charger (the latter for faster ultimate recharge). Alot of the other skills relate to other things like Ultimate Battery, Team Resist or general defence like Heavy Deflect, or Ice Resist.
Between the chainguns, I prefer the Mulcher. I think the Trishot is very overrated, mostly due to the fact it heats up very quickly when firing. Given the passive skill is healing from heavy weapon hits, it makes more sense to me to be able to constantly dish out the damage and heal, rather than having to stop constantly to cool the Trishot down. Plus with Execution Rules not being one of the standard Horde mutators anymore you can finish downed enemies from range more easily nowadays.
I also like using the Torque, so alot of the time I use Serrated Edge as well. It helps to be faster on my feet rather than having to lug a heavy weapon around all the time.
Heavy Deflect (or whatever it’s called) is decent extra protection from Heavies, especially Trishot and Mulcher wielding enemies.
Concussive Explosives can be a lifesaver and excellent support for your team.