We do need separate tunings, I think that's clear now (a lot of "pros" are totally out of touch with the player base)

Yeah, fine, flame away, I have my asbestos suite on.

(Summary, if you don’t care to read the body)

Give them their own tuning, which they can use in tournaments and in private scrims, and put the rest of the ranked game (yes, even escalation/execution) on a general user tuning... So yeah, Core/Comp, but don't break it down by game modes (so you don't split the community). Have a general Core-like tuning for all ranked, guided by the general player base, and a Comp tuning available for private and tournaments, guided by the 'pros'...

Details:

I will focus on two specific instances of esports players talking about the game and about tunings.

First one is @Kenny_Bounce and what he said on Duchy’s channel a couple of days back, talking about movement.

When objecting to fast movement he said that fast movement allows the aggressor to win 85% of encounters. He then said that the slower movement, like we had at launch, dropped that down to about 50%, which he thought was reasonable.

Now, there is a HUGE thing these people are missing here. They are thinking about & talking about players of THEIR skill level. And they completely miss the idea / point that what is suitable for the top 1%, what makes the game play fun or competitive for the top 1% is NOT what works for the average masses, the, say, bottom 75% of the player base.

Kenny’s comments about movement - think about it. With fast movement top players can win 80% of encounters with fast movement. Sure, I’ll buy that. But what about the mid range players? Fast movement means that average players CAN use fast movement to win SOME encounters…
He said with slower movement top players can use movement to win 50% of encounters? Sure, I’ll buy that.
What about the average players?

Speaking from my own experience, that really slow movement we had at launch made movement completely useless as an offensive and defensive tool. For someone at MY skill level. I don’t have the skills the pros do, I have neither the interest nor the time nor the reflexes/etc to try and get there… So movement which makes it possible to win half encounters via movement, for the top 1% of the player base, rendered movement useless for the bottom 75% of the base…

This is a PERFECT example why I laugh at the idea that the absolute best players should guide the development and tuning of this game, because they know best what ‘works’… Yeah, at THEIR level! I have no problem with “pros” deciding what tuning should be used in tournaments. None. But the idea that they should decide how WE play? Nonsense… Pure and utter nonsense and garbage.

i want to play a game which is fun and exciting to me, without having to be in the top 1% of the player base… Duhh…

GoW4 was that game. Movement was fun. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed learning how to get better with it, because there were many things I could do with it already, and I saw that else I could reasonably get to, with some practice.

Gears 5, at launch - movement was CRAP. NOTHING worked… FOR ME! At MY level… There was NOTHING fun or exciting about the moment…
The fact that the "pros’ thought it was cool that THEY could win 50% of encounters with this new movement - completely irrelevant to me. @Kenny_Bounce, sorry, buddy, I don’t care about what works for you. I buy a game to enjoy what works for me. And I will try to steer the game in the direction which has the most benefit, for me… And I believe there are a lot more people like me than like you, in this game.

Now, this brings me to Icy and his recent twitter posts… He expresses a lot of the same movement ideas as Kenny did, so see above… But he made one statement which made me laugh…

Basically, without eSports there is no game.

Hahahahahahahhahahaha…

Hahahahhahahahahahhaha,

Icy, all eSports events could stop; all “pros” could get fired. All eSports skins could disappear…

The general player population wouldn’t care, and the majority of them wouldn’t even notice.

You REALLY have a hugely over exaggerated view of your importance (well, outside of Mexico, anyway)…

We need to get such “pros” out of this discussion… They are not offering anything of substance to the conversation about ranked experience, they are just polluting the process with irrelevant noise. Irrelevant to 80% of the players.

Give them their own tuning, which they can use in tournaments and in private scrims, and put the rest of the ranked game (yes, even escalation/execution) on a general user tuning… So yeah, Core/Comp, but don’t break it down by game modes (so you don’t split the community). Have a general Core-like tuning for all ranked, guided by the general player base, and a Comp tuning available for private and tournaments, guided by the ‘pros’…

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I dont know. I still dont believe two different tunings are necessary. I also dont think you need to change the movement to balance this game. The idea that there is no Gears without a pro scene is nonsense. Pro Scenes are developed around fun games.

I think the movement is fine. You could buff the lancer power wise or add stopping power to bring some lancer relevance back, however, the lancer is still formidable especially when there are multiple lancers going. 1v1 the lancer is definitely underpowered vs a rushing Gnasher. I think faster movement makes the game more fun especially in KOTH.

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I always said the two Tunings was the one good thing TC did in Gears 4 if they were going to push for eSports.

Classic Gears to me will always be Core Tuning.

eSports Gears is more Comp Tuning.

The two worked well, IMO.

eSports for Gears isn’t something I see growing bigger when the playerbase is so small on Gears compared to other Triple A games.

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Pro’s play a different way, very strategic, full stacks/teams and it’s all about the small variations in skill.

Ranked Matchmaking is a mess and the game just doesn’t work well at all that way online.

That’s why, the two shouldn’t be mixed, Universal Tuning while eSports is on the agenda for TC just doesn’t make sense.

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Never understood the negative reception behind 2 tunings. Makes no sense to me.

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Agreed.

Was blown way out of proportion by people demanding “one tuning” for the sake of it.

The problem is,

You can only then have a compromise.

Why even settle for that when Core was better suited to the mode I play, KOTH?

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Competitive tuning should be the only ranked tuning. Play gow4 ranked tdm then play ranked exe or escalation. Almost a night and day difference on skill level. Core tuning allowed people to reach tiers they wouldn’t have without it. Now imagine constantly having these players on your team cause matchmaking thinks their onyx so they should be able to strategically play maps and not just simply run here lancer or run there for wall bounce fight. Core tuning should only be social. Enjoy dodgeball

This isn’t true.

Core tuning didn’t boost your rank.

It doesn’t boost what I’m saying it easier to kill people. Hop on plat on checkout with an active lancer and it’s pretty much guaranteed kills/down or four pointing someone before they get anywhere. Really you could stay their easily unless the opposite team send at least 2 people to push you. While on competitive settings one person could you get you off plat without even needing nades.

It’s definitely not easier to kill people due to Tuning.

Is this a joke post? Core tuning deals with a good amount of aim assist as well. You can barely play for angles in ranked tdm on gears 4 due to aim assist hand holding people in cover with two shot downs from the gnashes. Being 4 pointed running down the steps of blood drive by one person with a lancer. I’m sorry but you can’t change my mind on this. I hated gears 4 more than judgement at the beginning of its lifespan due to core tunings. It wasnt until I played competitive tuning did the game become top 2 in the series for me. Too bad it separated the population. But yea try to play gow4 core and competitive tuning in at least 1vs1. It almost feels impossible to do anything or push anybody in cover. ( don’t forget the hundreds of threads on the forum about this

Which means it’s also easier to die. There are trade-offs. Comp tuning allowed you to take a lot of risks because the weapons were so weak, and they also allowed you to get away with a lot of mistakes.

Core might have been “easier” to get a kill, but it’s also harder to stay alive.

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:man_shrugging:. There is nothing wrong with the current tuning. It might need additional balancing. But Core tuning was too powerful and comp tuning was too forgiving. The tuning is actually good where it is with some minor tweaking.

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Lol you mean just stay in cover. Why even try to move for angles like saying going wide by the scorcher on blood drive when you just sit in host pocket or nade room and down someone almost instantly with the lancer. That is one of the big reasons for camping it’s almost impossible to do anything without being 4 pointed everywhere you go or playing buddies with someone the whole round. Competitive tuning I rarely care if someone is camping in those spots because they give up map control for trying to tickle me. And the weapons was not weak. I love to lancer. I would lancer you then seal the deal with the lancer, pistol or gnashes. People just couldn’t be consistent and seal the deal. While core tuning lol the only way you could lose after 4 pointing someone was if you stop shooting

Agree. 100 % and i literally said thee exact same thing in the comment sections of dutchs YouTube page

I love the new movement. It has absolutely NOTHING TO DO with winning and losing a battle. It has everything to do with the game feeling smooth and responsive and MOST importantly " MORE FLUID"
Ive said this countless times now " MY HANDS SHOULDNT HAVE TO WAIT FOR MY CHARACTER TO CATCH UP WHEN MOVING:

IM SOOOOO FREAKING sick of all these delays and IM REALLY PISSED because I just found out with this latest update, tht they delayed this malee / run/ 2 pc. And ITS 0.25 seconds. Thts a freaking lifetime in gears. They did exactly wht I knew they would do. Instead of fixing " this so called problem" they instead added another delay. There was no problem to begin with. U cant 2 pc anymore because they nerfed the malee already . No problem in this game is worth added a delay.

First off. I didn’t see an issue and I personally , not once used this MALEE speed boost ,not once. But it was good to know tht i could use it. Now if i do decide to, . Ill end up dead because WAIT FOR IT. A another freaking delay was added

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I’d really like to see how these guys would handle g1 or g3, Super powerfull guns and fast movement. I think they would have a fit.

As much as I hate the idea of two tunings again, especially like g4 did with one strong tuing with lots of aim assits and one weak as F tuning with less assist. I might have to agree with pros needing there own tuning if they can’t keep up with a tiny movement improvement.
Like i said in g4, im not sure they really want to play the gears that the rest of us have enjoyed for years and years.
Let them have at it if they really need it to play , at least it stops them messing with the base game that much, and maybe just maybe, decisions based around ‘but will it work in escalation’ can go to the bottom of the pile.

Apart from the extreme aim assist in, well, all the modes this tuning seem to be a good middle ground between g4 comp and core and I’d rather not see ranked get too far from the base game again.

In an ideal world we could have arcade/quickplay super duper aim assist modes, ranked with all that crap turned off, OP melee nerfed, stuns off etc, and a scrims tournie setting for private and the esports games.

The first month this came out and I had suggested something similar in another thread. Now I don’t want to promote sectioning off the community, but the updates and balances have seemed very counter-intuitive. Im not excited to hear things about Gears anymore and this is my second favorite franchise. I really wish there was more going on by way of change.

Regarding the bolded part, in my opinion this is where the “movement” crowd starts to become just as presumptive as the pros they decry. You’re making reference to “75% of the player base,” and then framing the discussion around the idea that this 75% supports your preferences regarding movement. Where is the evidence of this? The discourse here on the forum comprises a negligible, non-representative sample of Gears 5 players, and even here there’s substantial support among non-pros to revert certain components of the movement changes.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And yes

Now, I’m not a pro-player or any of that nonsense, but I actually liked two tunings as well. I actually preferred Competitive!

And GOW4 Escalation was great fun.

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