Upcoming PvP tuning predictions / concerns

I know there will be some people who disagree with some of my points, that’s fine. These are just my thoughts. I’ll try to keep this shorter than my normal novels.

I should preface this with, I know I used to be extremely critical, I then became much more positive with Operation 4. I did find myself becoming more bored and frustrated throughout Operation 4 and made that quite apparent, just to be clear though this isn’t TC’s fault this time around, it’s more the players.

I’ll cover the first topic as it’s not so much a tuning concern but it’s 100% a problem that I feel is going to get worse. That being the quit penalty. TO BE CLEAR I do not like quitters at all from Ranked and I fully understand why people want them to be “punished”. The problem though is in that a LOT of “quitters” didn’t quit by choice. Ever since Gears 4, players have been kicked from matches, disconnected for no reason, froze, not loaded in… all sorts… all things that aren’t the player’s fault (disconnections often happen when the player is NOT having an issue on their end). Please think back only a few weeks to a Dev Stream whereby Dana himself was kicked from their own private match about 5 or 6 times, just because the game felt like it. If that was ranked, he’d be punished as a “quitter”. How is that fair in any sense? It’s not. For that reason I maintain that whilst I hate actual quitters, there should be NO punishment to players until the game is stable enough to keep all players in the match for the duration. VERY BAD IDEA TO ADD THIS!

Gamemodes / GP adjustments - Not too much to say, I like this. I am happy to see KOTH 4v4 for the reasons explained on the Dev stream, I am happy to see the GP adjustments as it’ll be fairer, though I do feel like the rank requirements may need to be bumped up as I feel like this will make it easier for some players to reach Diamond / Masters. It’s a shame to see Gridiron go, I like single life modes but it’s evident that the community has changed too much to support any form of classic Gears feel like that now.

Dev Playlist - This is where most of my concerns will be, I know I need to try it first but I feel like I already know how this is going to play out. I also feel like a lot of these changes match things I have suggested which is nice to see.

  • Weight - I have been saying for a very long time that Gears 5 felt like you were floating, that the older Gears felt like there was some weight to it. I’m happy to see that feel trying to make a comeback.

I’m not sure about slowing the Roadie Run down by 20uu but I’ll certainly need to try it first, if anything I would have like to have seen regular strafing slightly sped up (I know that doesn’t make it feel heavier).

Acceleration has been reduced and Speed Boost from cover actions has been removed. This is a very grey area but personally I see no issue whatsoever with the RXN shot. But despite that, I am fine with them making these 2 changes to Acceleration and Speed Boost, I don’t like the change but I understand it. That will likely render the RXN shot pretty much pointless and ineffective. With that my concern comes from the fact delays are being added on top of this.

  • Delays - I want to start by adding some Screenshots to refer back to as example.

Cover - Defence

Cover - Aiming

Wall Sniffing - Defence

Wall Sniffing - Peaking

I have had this discussion with so many people. The first 2 screenshots ARE IN COVER. The 2nd 2 screenshots ARE NOT IN COVER.

This was my main reason for not wanting to see wall canceling removed, but that’s another topic entirely.

So, RXN shots will be broken with this change. It will also break the Back A. Again, this is something I understand why people feel like it’s too fast but consider this for a moment. The playerbase has changed, they don’t play in the same way people used to on older games. Pretty much every match has at least 1 person who camps corners “wall sniffing” (as seen in the 2nd 2 screenshots). These people will never push and will wait and wait for you to push, if you don’t then expect a stalemate. Therefore the extra 0.1s delay added to shooting after aiming from cover will make no difference to those people, they merely need to take 1 step to the side and can freely pull the trigger. This can’t be tuned out, it’s just another example of how the players have ruined the game. As the attacker against somebody who is wall sniffing, you have to make up the distance on the map and then somehow still be faster than the player wall sniffing. It’s already hard enough, now Back A’s will be too slow and RXN shots won’t work. This is going to drastically slow down the pace of the game because people will no longer be able to push, whilst once again the noobier tactic goes unpunished. I doubt Developers do that during internal testing so this probably gets overlooked. For the most part the game is tuned fine now, the problem is the players who play it. The Back A and RXN shot were pretty much the only way to push these people (hence why they complained about it and wanted it “fixing”), now it’s just going to be too slow, there’s no chance of pushing it. (Expect lots more stalemates on 2v2 Mid for sure!)

Not only this, the delay to shooting after Wall Cancelling is going to be awful. I already feel like my Gnasher locks up for no reason during Gnasher battles (others have also said the same). I understand this change has been made to try and combat Back A’s, but this is going to RUIN Gnasher Wall Bounce fights. I don’t like delays of any kind, you can slow the game down without hindering people. I feel like the slower Acceleration and removal of the Speed Boost would have been more than enough to help the players who feel like some techniques are too fast. If a player is too slow to see somebody moving towards them at a reduced rate of speed then if they can’t react fast enough then that’s their own fault, they don’t need to be helped again by preventing the attacker from shooting. (Yes, this has irritated me a bit).

These delays are going to make it far too easy to play defensive, and near impossible to play aggressive. (I imagine you play respectfully during internal testing, people in public play like the win allows them to keep their real life).

Last concern, and I didn’t expect to ever say this. DO NOT nerf the Lancer anymore by reducing Damage, it’s in a perfect spot at 50dmg. I do still see the issue, I believe that to be with the rate of fire, it’s too easy for people to land enough shots on you due to it. Reduce the rate of fire slightly and try that… only slightly. Nerfing it’s damage further will make it too weak.

There’s a lot of changes in this that I like, but this post is just some of my concerns of what we’re going to experience if ever this tuning makes it into the full game.

4 Likes

A lot of good points. I am in favor of all the tuning changes. I feel like it’s what a lot of people have been asking for and will feel/play more like Gears should. The delays are definitely needed imo, but playtesting could allow us to make sure the values are tuned to the best spot.

The added delay will be very minimal, but that is definitely the most important part of testing this. The cover shot delay is mostly for the people sliding into your cover and shooting over, i dont think reaction shots will be useless from this.

The delay after a cancel is very minimal as well, but enough to (hopefully) make people think more about their movement and result in increasing the tactical gameplay aspect that has been missing. Punished for mistakes. I feel like in gow4 and 5 (although 5 has improved this area in some ways), the defender is usually at a disadvantage in fights, even if they make the “smarter” play. This is definitely a response to the air back a play also.

I feel like we’re at a point where theres balance between gears being a tactical cover shooter and a fighting game. Right now the tactical part is lacking, hopefully this update improves that. I see your point with the wall sniffing etc, but this is the area i think that needs changed the most. Movement will be more skillful in choosing when and where, rather than just charging someone in defense and trying to reaction shot them. It will definitely make people change their gameplay, but for the better imo.

Tha lancer nerf really only adds 1 to 2 more bullets to down them, which I think is a good balance with the reduce acceleration and roadie run speed. I do like the idea of nerfing the rate of fire instead. Esp in contrast to the snubs very fast rate of fire.

I’m definitely excited to play this tuning, with the delays definitely being an area of focus.

2 Likes

I agree with pretty much all of your points raised except from the Lancer nerf I think it’s the correct decision to many games are just teams sitting back firing across at one another and trying to push with the gnasher is virtually impossible it just creates a boring campfest imo I’ll await to see how the game feels once the update lands I like the idea of a more weighted feel to the movement similar to classic gears the way it should be tbh the wrap arounds & sorts I’m not bothered about hopefully they are gone for good and for the record 4v4 KOTH is also a great move seen many people complain but I think I’ll now play & enjoy that mode more now

1 Like

Just to be clear, I HATE LANCER PLAYERS!

I just feel like any further damage reduction is a bad thing, trust me, I’m not one of those people who you’re describing, I’m ususally the person making posts against the Lancer.

The problem is the players now, nerfing it further will make the weapon useless. Sadly the people who abuse it are to blame for the problem, it’s no longer the tuning.

What does acceleration actually affect? Normal movement? Because normal strafing right now is weak as hell. It’s the one thing in the game that actually needs to be faster. So if that is now more sluggish, then they are actively encouraging the abuse of the things they are having to adjust.

I think most of the delays being added are an attempt to compensate for the online. Some of the reason these fast manoeuvres are so powerful is because they play out faster on the receiving players end compared to how they should play out. Someone slides towards some cover and you explode before they hit it. Well, on their screen they hit the cover, then up A’d or did a quick pop shot.

I think these delays might make these situations more readable, which is good. I don’t think it will suddenly invalidate these attacks. I mean as stupid as I think the wrap/reaction shot thing is (you shouldn’t be able to fire a weapon 90 degrees from the barrel or out your ■■■■■■■■) I do get they are kind of necessary for successful pushing. But that is partly because the shotgun has a massive effective range even when hip fired but that’s another discussion.

As it should be :joy_cat:

Seriously though, did you watch the PvP dev stream yesterday? It seems apparent to me that they have love for Gears 1/2 and the reason was that they wanted rifles to be less suppressive and to increase map flow (I can barely remember the times I was lancered in Gears 1/2) so if you think Gears 1 was the best Gears Versus experience of course you’d love these changes lol, if you happen to love Gears 3 and its rifle dominant playstyle then it won’t appeal to you.

Regardless though I will definitely be testing it out, maybe I’ll see you around :wink:

I could type out an answer but instead i’ll quote directly from TC’s recent What’s Up post. I’ve linked it if you want to read it all.

“New: Sliding will now take into consideration acceleration, previous as soon as the player entered a slide, they would immediately reach the max speed of 600uu/s. Now we have set the initial speed of the slide to 300uu/s with an acceleration rate of 2000uu/s2. This means the character will feel like they have more weight while maintaining the fluidity of movement.”

Basically, pressing A currently allowed you to slide at full speed instantly, this instant acceleration meant that your character feels very very very light. They’ve slowed it down so you can still reach 600uu slide speed but you’ll gradually reach that speed during the slide. No - You won’t reach 2000uu, you’ll accelerate at that rate until you reach 600uu, whereby you’ll be at your terminal velocity.

Acceleration is just that, the time is takes to move from X speed to X speed. That time used to be 0s.
I agree with you that regular strafing is a bit slow.

@Thee_Bluejay Hey, yes I watched the dev stream. I agree that they are moving back to the feel of the older games.

For a very long time I have been saying that there’s no middle ground, that TC need to pick an audience and cater to it, it FEELS like they’re doing just that which I like to see. Even if everything isn’t to my liking, it makes them appear more confident and able which is good.

I enjoyed all legacy Gears games, but Gears 3 was by far my favourite. Some of these changes will certainly go against my prefernce but they’re not bad changes for Gears (obviously I’d rather not see some things happen).

Lancer in G1 was actually very effective but it was only ever really in competitive matches, Gears 2… I don’t remember much Lancering at all. Gears 3 was Lancer and Snub in competitive, whereas public the sweats all used the Hammerburst and thought they were something special. Gears 3 was more rifle based but I didn’t like that about Gears 3 so I’d welcome a change that makes it less “rifley”.

I have been giving feedback for a very long time now and for all of that time I have been saying the Lancer was too strong and pinned people down too much, because it was too powerful! And it did pin people down! I wanted to see it return back to it’s intended role and I believe it’s there now. I don’t want to give selfish feedback that would be bad for the game. I genuinely believe that as much as I hate Lancer users, nerfing it would break it entirely and Gears does need a rifle that can offer support, it shouldn’t be useless. I would like to see a rate of fire reduction rather than a damage reduction. This would mean accurate players who have the skill to land the shots would be accurate, whereas people who relied upon the rate of fire may not be able to track the target quite as well.

I’m VERYYYYYYYYYYY tired typing this reply but I didn’t want to ignore the replies, so I hope it makes sense. :slight_smile:

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Gears 3 was NOT that lancer heavy…you still needed skill with the gnasher…gears 4 and 5 are the games that made the lancer the preferred weapon…the only over powered lancer was the retro…but even that could be beat by a good gnasher

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I hate to say it, but this game’s movement is complete ■■■
the animations that are tied to sliding to the wall and canceling make no sense
they’re playing with acceleration and speed to try to balance that but the problem will be here forever as long as they don’t change them at the very core, we still deal with pinballs
in gears 1 you had the feeling that a huge character was going to slam a cover, the feel of the movement and the fact you couldn’t completely cancel out helped a lot in term of consistency
I’m sorry to say it, people won’t play the PVP part of this game as much as they used to because too much has no sense
wallbouncing is horrible so rxn shots and everything tied to camera/barrel switches
most of the common techniques involve cheating around the cover system and in this game means one dies without people in front of them shooting

I’m conflicted about the delays they’re adding but at this point I’ll take anything

The delays will actually limit LT reaction shots, and the unstoppable air back A. Along with slowing the acceleration, they’re making the upA animation itself slower. This + the return to 4v4 is the closest the game has been to getting back to classic actual gears gameplay imo. Now this is all theoretical thinking, based on how good it looks on paper, but I’m optimistic. Its basically the classic tuning playlist they had only with * the wall cancel