Unwrapping those leftover energy presents (more excessive Horde stats)

Some holiday hangover/downtime lets me finally finish up and put another giant info drop under your tree. This time it’s statistics regarding enemy energy pickups, the final kind of income in the Gears 5 Horde v4.0 ‘energy economy’ (also see taps and forges).

When killed, enemies leave behind a double (or triple, for most bosses) rotating “diamond” energy symbol for players to pick up (walk over) in order to gain an enemy-specific amount of energy (assuming the drop doesn’t get stuck inaccessibly inside the map, seen most often on stairs). It doesn’t matter how the enemy dies-- shot, bled out, its suicide attack, friendly fire, etc.-- though I did notice a Snatcher spike killing Lambent was sometimes causing energy to not appear.

A.I. soldiers can also obliviously wander through the energy, and unlike energy collected from taps or from forging, it is given to the human part of the team. So for at least this game mechanic you aren’t penalized for being short some team members.

All players get the same amount (two people get “the base amount” divided by 2, three players = total / 3, etc.). Many base totals appear intentionally chosen to be evenly divisible by 1-5 players, but for the ones that aren’t, it tends to round up so each player might get slightly more (e.g., the Elite Drone worth 795 energy to 1 player is worth 398 each for 2 players, a total of 796 for the team). Like taps and forges, it doesn’t matter if you’re DBNO or dead, you’ll still get your share of any energy pickups by the team.

If the energy drop hasn’t been collected within 30 seconds, it’ll reduce to a single symbol (or in some very rarely observed cases, go from 3 diamonds to 2), and the total amount of energy the pickup is worth is divided by half. Similar “rounding errors” for dividing by 2 can occur like above. Namely when energy drops that aren’t multiples of 10 but end in 5 are halved, they’ll be rounded up or down to a nearby multiple of 5. For example, an Elite Drone kill dropping 795 energy will decay after 30 seconds to 395 energy, compared to a Locust Drone dropping 280 energy that properly halves to 140 energy.

There’s only a single halving. It won’t drop further to a quarter (or to a single symbol for those 3-diamond stacks that decay visually to 2).

All remaining uncollected energy disappears on the next wave start. Other than that, it doesn’t matter whether you pick it up during the wave or during the interim build time, as the energy granted is the same. No class gets extra energy for picking it up anymore, though Infiltrator and Nomad have Healing Jolt/Powered Sprint cards that give them health when doing so. (Note that you can collect energy when crawling/down-but-not-out, but even at Level 6-- 100% healing-- those cards won’t stand you back up on your own.)

The amount of energy provided also isn’t altered by difficulty or the Power Drain modifier. It is obviously boosted by the Super Energy modifier (next time it appears I’ll try to remember to check whether the description’s stated 30% IIRC bonus is accurate).

You can see in the HUD on the top left how many energy drops have fallen but haven’t yet been picked up, as well as their current per-player worth. There are occasional discrepancies between that and what you actually pick up. For example, after killing a Boss Rush Carrier single player it can say “On the field (1): 2333”, but picking it up actually provides 2335, as seen in the screenshot sequence above. I don’t know what that’s signifying about how the game tracks/calculates energy drops internally.

Total enemy net worth

AFAICT most enemies provide a consistent amount of total energy regardless of wave number, and often even across modes. But there are differences, particularly regarding bosses (including “mini-bosses” and Wardens, boss or otherwise). I’ve also encountered “normal” enemies that give varying amounts-- sometimes even within a single wave?!

Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to discern if they differ by anything beyond energy (health, damage, visual appearance). For modes that support multiple bosses at once, there also appears to be a “primary” and “secondary” categorization-- even when you get two of the same kind, each individual boss may give one of 2 different amounts. I’d love to hear if anyone has any insight into this.

The following table shows my experimental results for total energy provided to a single player (and usually the whole team) for each enemy. It’s already excessively large :slight_smile: so doesn’t include how much individual players get for 2-5 player teams (or if the 30-second halving occurs). Divide as needed yourself, and it should be close enough, subject to the rounding behavior mentioned previously. The names of the enemies are what appears in the kill feed, sometimes followed by a weapon distinguisher in parenthesis.

Enemy Type Horde Horde Frenzy . Boss Rush Escape From Kadar Horde Mania Horde Roulette Jingle Juvies Mad Man’s Monsters
Bastion 700 700 . 795
Bolter 280 280 .
Boomshot Scion 935 935 . 935 2335 935
Buzzkill Scion 700 700 . 700 700 1165 935
Carrier 3500 1400, 2100, 2800 . 2335 3265 2335 4665
. . . . . . . . . .
Cyclops 280 280 . 280
Deadeye 185,375 375 . 375 375
DR-1 Devastator 700 700 . 1400
DR-1 Oppressor 560 560 . 745 560, 655 1165
DR-1 Protector 560 560 . 560 465, 560 560 655
. . . . . . . . . .
Drone 375 . 465
Dropshot Scion 795 795 . 935 795, 975, 1165 935
Elite Drone 795 795 . 375 795
Elite Grenadier 560 560 . 885
Elite Hunter 560 560 . 560 840
. . . . . . . . . .
Elite Sniper 560 560 .
Flame Grenadier 700 700 . 700
Flock 2335 1400 . 2335 2335 4665
Frankenstein’s Imago (Hammerburst) . 235
Frankenstein’s Imago (Lancer) . 280
. . . . . . . . . .
Grenadier 560 560 . 465 280 655
Grenadier Elite 280, 700 700 .
Guardian 1165 1165 . 935 1400
Hunter 375 375 .
. . . . . . . . . .
Ice Scion 700 700 . 700 700 1165 935
Imago 185 185 . 185 185
Juvie 140 140 . 140 95, 140 140 140 95
Kestrel 7000 2800 . 2335 3265
Lambent Drone 185 185 . 185 185 235, 375
. . . . . . . . . .
Lambent Grenadier 560 560 . 560 560
Lambent Theron 560 560 .
Leech 140 140 . 140 140 140
Locust Drone 280 280 . 140
Locust Hybrid (Cryo Cannon) . 235
. . . . . . . . . .
Locust Hybrid (Gnasher) . 325
Locust Hybrid (Pipe) . 235 280
Locust Hybrid (Retro Lancer) 185 185 . 185 235 185
Locust Sniper 280 280 . 325
Matriarch 5600 2800 . 3500 1635 3265 2800 4665
. . . . . . . . . .
Mulcher Scion 795, 935 935 . 2335
Palace Guard (Lancer/Torque Bow) 560 560 . 560
Peace Maker 185 185 . 185 185 185
Popper (Frag/Incendiary/Shock) 280 280 . 280 280 280 185 375
Pouncer 700 700 . 935 935 935 935
. . . . . . . . . .
Reject 280 280 . 280
Sentinel 2335 1400 . 1400 2800
Shock Tracker 140 140 . 140 140 140
Sire 700 700 . 140 700 935 700
Snatcher 5600 1865, 2800 . 2335 3265 2800
. . . . . . . . . .
Stump 1400 1400 . 2100 1400
Swarmak 7000 2800 . 3735
Theron Elite 700 700 .
Theron Guard 560 560 . 375
Tracker 185 185 . 140
. . . . . . . . . .
Wakaatu 7000 2800 . 3500 3735
Warden 1865, 2335, 2425 1400, 1865 . 935 2100 1635 2335

I don’t have especially high confidence this is complete, particularly for the modes I don’t normally play (I had a hard time getting some enemies to regularly appear with just 1 or 2 local players, and can’t know if there’s sometimes another “worth” for an enemy that might appear but I wasn’t ever given), so additions/corrections are welcome. I assume you can encounter plain "Drone"s in 50 wave Horde, even though I never recorded them? They’re definitely rare in Horde Frenzy.

Wave 1 total energy availability

By themselves, those energy drop statistics are probably more meaningless than most I post since it’s hard to influence play with just the knowledge of how much a given enemy is worth. I think at least one thing you want is to combine it with expected types and numbers of enemies per wave so you can predict maximum potential energy availability.

I also have a working hypothesis that at least one factor in the types and numbers of enemies spawned in a wave (approximated by the “enemy meter”) is tied to, or at least closely approximated by enemies’ energy worth. (The variations in energy amounts for a given enemy type mentioned above might be tweaking meant to make more or fewer of them appear in certain sets?)

I don’t have that complete info, but I can at least give bonus preliminary facts about the wave 1 energy totals for all the modes:

  • First, start with the amount of initial energy each player gets for a given Horde mode when the Fabricator is first placed to kick off Wave 1. (That’s 1,000 for 50-wave Horde and Jingle Juvies, and 10,000 for the rest.)
  • Then combine it with the relatively tight range of enemy energy drops totals (assuming no 30-second-halving and everything is picked up) I’ve experimentally determined and posted below.
  • Lastly, add the tap stats for how much the initial 1-3 taps provide after Wave 1 ends.

The result is the following table of my currently estimated maximum possible energy ranges for a 5 player team after completing wave 1:

Energy Source Horde Horde Frenzy . Boss Rush Escape From Kadar Horde Mania Horde Roulette Jingle Juvies Mad Man’s Monsters
Initial team energy (5 players) 5,000 50,000 . 50,000 50,000 50,000 50,000 5,000 50,000
Max wave 1 energy drops 1,625 - 1,865 7,440 - 7,690 . 4,665 - 5,080 4,815 - 5,005 1,630 - 1,735 7,005-8,685 1,625-1,765 1,650 - 1,840
Max tap energy after wave 1 (5 players) 1,500 15,000 . 4,500 4,500 1,500 3,000 1,500 1,500
Max total team energy 8,125 - 8,365 72,440 - 72,690 . 59,165 - 59,580 59,315 - 59,505 53,130 - 53,235 60,005 - 61,685 8,125 - 8,265 53,150 - 53,340

(Edit: Fixed busted spreadsheet copy job for some modes’ taps and totals.)

So take heed, all you “must deposit until wave x” lobbies: I’m a step closer to objectively finding out how much you’re actually worth. :slight_smile:

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Wow, awesome! It seems you enjoy summarizing some statistics :wink:

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Like this one…

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Reading this makes me sick.

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I’ve actually learned something new today. Because I thought the same enemies always drop the same amount of power regardless of game-mode.

I have to admit, that’s a lot to read through though… Maybe get the tables up first before the wall of text. :3

lol perhaps, but I suspect there’s no arrangement for an insane post of this density that would make it palatable.

One’s either going to slog through the walls of text or not, and it probably doesn’t matter where I put them (in before someone says “in the rubbish bin”… :slight_smile: yes, I suppose, but maybe just consider it a skippable cutscene that’s there if you want or can be bypassed if you don’t).

Deposit until 30?!! More than half the game? And specifically calling out Blademaster?
Frost: “What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?”

Scum.

A bit late to be relevant for the most recent daily but I did some testing yesterday with the Super Energy modifier and I must say that the behavior surprised me a bit. The description of “energy pickups heal and give 3x the normal amount” is true but not how I’d personally assumed/from a narrower point of view than expected.

There is a 3x / 200% bonus, but:

  1. that % is only mathematically accurate when there are 5 human players and you’re calculating for one individual;
  2. it’s only given to the human player picking up the energy (other players don’t get it like standard pickups, and A.I. traipsing through energy doesn’t give anyone the bonus).

The extra energy is a fixed amount that you could arguably calculate as equaling 40% per human player. That is, if you’re alone and therefore would get the entire amount listed in the table above to yourself, with Super Energy it’s only 1.4x the amount you’d otherwise get. For example, a Shock Tracker normally worth 140 energy gives you a fixed bonus of 56 (also displayed in parentheses after the normal amount in the center of the display) for a total of 196.

For 2 players, each player normally gets 140 / 2 = 70 energy for the Shock Tracker, but with Super Energy the person picking it up gets the fixed 56 extra which makes 126, or 1.8x normal. It takes 5 players-- normally getting 140 / 5 = 28 energy each-- for the collecting player’s 56 extra (84 total) to actually come out to this “3x the normal amount” for that one person.

But you don’t ever get 140 x 3 = 420 total. It’s only 196 collectively for teams of any size for that Shock Tracker.

Also, for completeness: the bonus is halved like the standard amount as expected if the 30 seconds elapses. And the “On the field” HUD counter still indicates the standard per-player amount not yet picked up, without any bonus (still subject to the discrepancies mentioned above).

This all probably continues to indirectly tell us about how the game actually implements the energy pickup logic…

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