There are plenty of challenges to be had, in Horde

Do you think this is reflective of Horde generally as a mode though?

My personal view, and many others will probably agree, but Horde is much easier than Escape on the same difficulty.

Horde being what it is, essentially involves setting up a base and sitting there for up to 50 waves shooting approaching enemies from the same handful of positions. Tankier enemies with even more ridiculous damage output is the most straightforward way to up the ante.

But maybe we’re approaching it in the wrong way when we talk about challenge. As much as I’m a PVE player who would like an extra challenge from Horde, I’m not convinced that upping the enemy damage and health is the answer. Some of the new daily mutators have been a nice new addition and challenge. I also wonder if as the difficulty increases, we also get added limits to the number of fortifications we can build? Or if this could become an optional thing for private lobbies?

I think for all its flaws, GOW5 has done well to evolve the PVE scene by adding Escape which I really love. Compared to Horde it’s much harder and is more of a challenge. Granted some hives are harder/easier than others, but it’s a breath of fresh air from a PVE perspective. Sometimes I think I’ve just outgrown Horde and ideally in GOW6 we get a brand new PVE mode to what we currently have.

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To explain more, I think it’s about the Meta, which mainly the current phenomenon that a majority of players hosting their game require the Meta Class.

It’s not players’ fault because those strong class attract player to abuse them, and that’s the problem when you see most of the lobbies no mater Master or Incon naming “Need Demo/ Tac” or they won’t start until you play the Meta Class.

I think what we struggle thinking that Master isn’t a challenge mainly we don’t want to get out of the Safe Zone, which a majority of people think it’s a waste of time once you fail.

There’re so many types of players, maybe the newbies, maybe the advanced player, maybe the grinding player, maybe the daily player or maybe player playing with meaning.

Clearly now, we don’t have a meaning of Playing Master, so we try to set a special challange like different place setting of fabricator. Another point is that this game lack open-minded player. Most of players play the same method with same class, which is too fixed.

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I think alot of it comes from more classes being added to PVE (and Escape). I mean, if my memory serves correct alot of the Horde launch characters like Fahz and Kait weren’t added to Escape until Operation 4 and I think this will have had a big impact. At launch, we only had the 3 Hivebuster characters (plus the 4 promotional Halo/Terminator ones) so not much to choose from.

Plus all of us regardless of our ability will have been getting to grips with the game brand new - enemy behaviours, movement and tuning, the melee-system. Over time we’d naturally improve as we understand all of these things better.

I think in terms of difficulty, the spread across Operations has been reasonably even. If I were to choose my top 5 hardest hives, they’d probably be The Split; The Onslaught (assuming you stand and fight instead of hoofing it in act 2); The Surge, Ice Queen; and Forever (if the spawns work properly).

My top 5 easiest, again would be spread fairly evenly - The Mist; The Clock; The Corruption; The Hive; and The Descent.

Although I will also add that some hives have been ballsed up since they were first released - especially those where closing and locked doors used to be a thing, like The Blight, The Clock (not that it made it much harder to be fair) and The Trap. I’ve always wondered if these changes were intended or not!

Fair points, how about instead of beefing up the current mods to make it harder they just allowed an extra one?

So for example you have your master lobby but can master+ by choosing your own extra slot. So you could add must active reload or maybe an ammo starvation modifier, poison flushers?

I think that could work letting us choose another red mod of our choice. I’m actually someone who doesn’t mind failing and trying over and over if it’s with like minded players, it’s just hard to get that in custom lobbies.

I think that’s a great idea. Allows freedom of set up and gradually building out. Make it so!

Here’s the weird flex I mentioned.

Load up a random game and make inconceivable look like a baby mode.

Sure, might happen with good randoms. Also might wipe very quickly.

Anyone who has played enough knows the game can humble you at times.

Just because a good team can make the game look silly doesn’t make it too easy.

Original point from OP stands…you can make the game harder. Choose classes, cards, maps etc.

Saying it’s too easy is really both on you and false.

The game is fine. Find your challenge point and go from there.

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But they wont… They had soooooo many opportunities to do that, over 1.5 years, and nothing…

It would massively open up maps for horde, imo…

There are maps i just dont play because of tap stupidity…

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More Lethal turned off? That’s easy unless the host kicks for keeping the inital 10k for perks.

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You are allowed to buy one weapon of your choice and the rest in the fab!

Otherwise wave 12 with one enemy remaining you will get a message asking “What’s the shape of Italy?”

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Even then it should be possible, albeit the slow speed movement would suck…

This is one of the reasons I play matchmaking…it’s a crap shoot as to how people set up and their skill levels. It provides consistent challenges that keep the gameplay a bit fresh and challenging (that is once you find a match that isn’t the daily for the 100th time).

Or when they are never added into the matchmaking rotation either.

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I prefer to turn off regen.

To each their own.

I don’t worry about more lethal.

Point is even then weird wipes happen.

It’s not the norm, but those that act like it never happens aren’t being honest.

Does the game need another level?

No.

We went from insane to inconceivable to master.

It’s either doable and people get use to the difficulty or they don’t.

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If you are referring to weapons then yes.

I’ve heard this argument for a long time and to a certain extent I agree, but a huge difference in the modes is that there are lots (maybe a hundred or so, don’t know exact numbers) of players who have beaten all the hives solo, good luck beating Pahanu or Bunker on Horde solo.

I would say that Escape can be far more punishing for bad players because you have certain modifiers that can 100% murder your team if you don’t do anything about it, however if you know the maps then I would say its very easy comparatively. Now if you wanna argue which one is more fun then Escape for sures but I just don’t find it anywhere near the difficulty level of Master Horde, way less variables to worry about.

I have no idea why people seriously think that just increasing damage=more difficult. At a certain point it becomes irrelevant, I also think its by far the laziest/most boring way to up difficulty in games.

My hope for GOW6 is that its a Gears game made for Gears fans (they’ve sort of always done this, but I mean no Battle Royale or anything stupid like that) so I expect Overrun, Beast, and Horde. I expect Horde to remain similar in principles/ideas but those other 2 modes can go in odd directions (lots of possibilities depending on what enemies we’ll see and weapons available)

Sorry, I must have accidentally deleted the key word “Horde” from my original post (have editted it and added it now). I think you’ve deduced what I was referring to anyway.

I think it’s with Horde generally. The way weapons work across PVE is to the best of my knowledge, consistent and the same. The only differences in Horde and Escape, is the way that it’s played, mutators (in Escape) are subject to change; and through progression of Horde waves extra enemy buffs are added so in Horde, you eventually deal with enemies with up to 4.5x extra damage and health; whereas in Escape it caps out at 2x.

I’m referring to the whole of Horde generally I guess. You have a base to fall back on; you have fortifications to back you up or slow the enemy down; you get ammo replenished by weapon lockers; and you as a team get to choose where on the map you set up base so can take advantage of the map for defence, chokepoints sightlines etc. It’s basically up to 50 waves of mostly doing the same thing. Escape is quite a bit different.

I don’t think comparing solo Escape to solo Horde is a fair comparison. There’s lots of factors which make them incomparable in my opinion. Horde requires you to kill everything to progress, whereas Escape doesn’t; and Escape has venom as a factor (which can be used to turn things around onto the enemy). Also enemy numbers and changing mutators give it a different spin too. I’m just referring broadly to their respective difficulties based on how these modes are intended to be played - as part of a 3 or 5 person team.

I doubt they will ever scrap Horde seeing as it’s THE PVE mode of the franchise. I also doubt they will make too many radical changes either, given how some of the changes in GOW5 generated such a bad reaction from fans. I just hope that if they do come up with a new PVE mode that they don’t scrap Escape to make room for it, but truth is I have a funny feeling they will. Having 3 different PVE modes may be a bit too much from TC’s perspective and maintaining a healthy player base over time.

I find execution rules STUUUUUUUUUPID in PvE, as it nullifies a lot of the non explosive meta bleed, and it is kinda inconsistent re what weapons bypass it (embar vs longshit, trishot vs mulcher, etc).

Re actual difficulty i think extra health is the most difficult one, and i do think it is … Inapproproate that it kicks in on wave 11, before anyone can really perk up… That should be a wave 31 poison… Maybe 21, but not 11.

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Belongs in there about as much as health regeneration for enemies does. Aka it doesn’t.

And if I had to choose between a tougher Drone Elite or constantly getting two shotted by it from across the map for the entire match, I’ll take the one that sponges more, thank you very much.

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Ah yes the infamous I can do it so it must be nerfed threads. That brings back memories lol. Gods I hated those threads so much lol.

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This is so true. Every lobby to join is always Overload, the daily map and every once in a while Blood Drive (before that is was all about Forge). An absolute majority of the maps never gets picked in customs so I definitely understand if they would not put anymore maps out there.

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This is why I keep playing mainly with randoms. You never know what you gonna get.

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Oh how can i forget that time where our demolition had a ridiculous bleed damage and enemies were getting close all the time ( 4cxp event was a mistake too many fake 20) and on wave 25 he killed himself by accident with his ultimate (sentinel flew over him the exact moment he triggered it ) we got wipped, my buddy was pissed off but i was lmao-ing so hard…randoms’ BS yet again