I honestly did not think this thread would ever get a response from TC and thought it would go on forever and ever but I was wrong.
Happy to be wrong and Thank you.
I honestly did not think this thread would ever get a response from TC and thought it would go on forever and ever but I was wrong.
Happy to be wrong and Thank you.
We deeply care about the Gears fanbase - and especially those still playing today.
Development is a game of resources (ie. manpower) and, over time, more and more of our team have been focused on building Gears 5. The bonus of making a new game is it provides many, many new opportunities that are tough to do when you have a set framework. The downside is we’ve had less and less resources to put into Gears 4 as we focus on making 5 the best game possible.
That said, this has been the most maps, special events, updates, characters, weapon skins, feedback based tuning and improvements that a Gears game has ever had and for the longest time after launch by a significant margin. We also have more people playing today than Gears 3 did at this point in it’s lifetime which has been the case for a long time now. We’re super grateful for that.
Personally, I feel the team have done a lot post-launch to be proud of. It’s not been perfect - we definitely would like to be more flexible than we’ve been able to be with Gears 4 but we’ve learned a lot of things along the way.
All I can say is the studio is aware of all of this feedback and more. Even if it doesn’t reflect now in Gears 4, you may see the fruits of that in the future.
Honestly it’s been one of those threads we’ve been meaning to jump into for a long while. We were focused on addressing a lot of the feedback out there and responding in other places about these issues (stream, Reddit, Twitter etc) but never in this thread. That’s on us.
Could you get us some information regarding what the team is doing to improve connection quality in Gears 5. It’s important to program the game so that high pings don’t create a negative environment for those with good pings. This is especially true when a large part of the fan base has mediocre connections so there is a real good chance we will experience these issues consistently. I am sure many players other than myself would like to know why on a dedicated server the low pings experience sticky walls and teleporting despite our pings remaining stable. None of this happens in low ping matches so it’s definitely something to do with the way the game handles high pings. This in itself makes no sense because on every other game with dedicated servers, including Halo on Azure, I wouldn’t experience movement issues if my ping was stable. Basically, why does a high ping player dictate how smooth my movements are?
Again, I realize there’s nothing being done to Gears 4. But we as a community deserve to know what you’re doing to address this with Gears 5. I know my die hard Gears friends, who still play Gears 4 with me, will walk away from Gears 5 if this issue isn’t addressed. So please, acknowledge and/or explain what you guys are doing. Please don’t tell me “low ping has an advantage” because there are thousands of videos proving otherwise.
That is on you. It doesn’t matter if you want to use other avenues to reach out but these are your official forums and should be given the same priority of the other mediums. If you as a studio don’t want to communicate here with the same urgency as other places you may as well delete the forums and tell everyone to go over to one of those services. Not that I would - I don’t do social media of any form. But it’s something to think about.
We’re not ready to talk about Gears 5 yet. However, when we do start talking about Gears 5, we will definitely want to provide the opportunity for you to ask questions like that and have them answered.
We definitely want to do more here and should. Our forum community is super valuable to us.
The difficulty - as I’m sure you’ve noticed here - is that forums are a more closed off medium where information is lost all the time on a per thread basis. The benefit of a focus on social channels is that the information reaches much further, can be seen by more people and is a much more common medium for a lot of people out there these days.
Since before Gears 4 even shipped, we’ve been transparent about the reality of that and where our focus to support people mostly lies because of it.
That said, we definitely want to be more present here than we have been - and do more specific things with our forum community that suit the longer deeper conversations that can happen here.
I get that and thanks for the response. But are you guys aware of these movement issues in Gears 4 when high pings are present? I’m not talking about sponging but rather the fluidity of my movements are dictated by a high ping/inconsistent pinged player. Even if you won’t talk about Gears 5 is it safe to say you’re aware of these issues and looking to improve on it? This is extremely frustrating in the Diamond tiered matches because movement will make or break a matches success. It’s difficult to succeed if I go to break into an area only to teleport back into an enemy. The odd part is my ping will be say 40ms but the enemy spiked majorly. So it makes no sense as to why I teleported into them instead of the opposite. It’s backwards although neither is really acceptable.
Can you elaborate on this? I can then talk about this with the team - may be a conversation I’ve not been across.
I replied above but I’ll try and elaborate more.
I’ll have a 40ms ping but the enemy will have a 100ms ping. I’ll be running towards them or bouncing towards them and all of a sudden I teleport backwards or into another enemy. This same type of lag also teleports me into a wall I already ran passed and again my ping is low but the enemies isn’t. The issue is my teleporting is always right into a problem area and creates an instant death but when the enemy teleports with a high ping they kill me while they’re teleporting. I don’t ever see this when I get the rare low ping game which is a major issue as almost every match has these micro-stutters.
I can confirm with 100% certainty that this is a Gears only issue. You’re using the same server infrastructure as Halo and the original Titanfall and not once have I teleported in those games. For some odd reason Gears 4 is doing some random catch up to sync up with where a high ping sees me rather than my low ping seeing things in a more real time status.
As I mentioned above, I’ve battled through it all and even reached Diamond 3 while doing so in the most competitive playlist rank wise. But in the end it shouldn’t be this frustrating and as someone with a 100% Fiber connection (940 Mbps download, 250Mbps Upload, 0% Packet Loss) I shouldn’t be experiencing these issues because it’s stable. Gaming as you know uses mere Kbps so for me to be negatively affected by someone who can’t consistenty provide that is extremely frustrating.
Twitter isn’t a great medium though. The small amount of characters per post creates a very limited space to explain an issue and creating multiple threads isn’t really a great option as that becomes more confusing than it should have to be. I get you reach a wider audience there but with all due respect to you and the team I would greatly appreciate a bit more transparency here. We have the ability to tag you here which should make it easy for you to see what needs a response even if the posts are kind of lost in between other ones. Although I do realize your notifications may get cluttered it would be nice to show up more.
Either way though, have fun in Mexico City.
Yes, the micro stutters are something we’re actively working on. We’ve recently improved the situation with some back end server tweaks as a temporary solution. We’re gathering telemetry and working towards implementing a full solution as soon as we can.
My personal experience backs that up in the fact I see them less often and they last for less time than they used to. Have you noticed an improvement this month vs last year by any chance?
I’ve noticed it’s happened a bit less but obviously I’m still seeing it. I have seen an increase in server inconsistencies where 5 or more players would spike and create an issue. I actually have a video showing a server spike where you can see my ping stayed low(er) but several players, including some friends that never spike, had issues due to server lag. It definitely screwed me up, lol.
Give this 15 second video a watch @TC_Octus. Do you ever experience this?
Edit: Watching that video, despite me being screwed due to lag, makes me want to play Gears right now, lol. I am a very sick boy.
This is the exact reason why High Ping Players “sponge” a shot.
They come so close you shoot as normal and should get a gib but a micro-stutter pulls them back ever so slightly that they take a 83% instead and can easily gib you at that point because they got close because of the lag and sponge ability.
I know this for a fact as I can do this when at 60-90ms on a US server and feel the effects of this when I’m at 5ms on my own EU West Server.
This is just one small example of how High Ping Players effect the games, especially those that spike severly and fluctuate.
Krylon, you and I have commiserated in the past about how playing with high-ping players seems to throw off the entire feel of the game and cause inaccuracies in damage dealing, and just generally make for a sucky experience. First of all, I am very happy and grateful that @TC_Octus says the micro-stutters are being looked at, Hopefully that will help fix the problems we experience. You might be helped by this: I keep X Box in quick startup mode, where it basically never turns off. Well, last night I completely unplugged it and did a complete startup. The game felt a little smoother I think. It could be a fluke. I only played a couple more matches after doing this and it could just be that those matches were on a better server and/or the other players had more stable connections. More data will come in after I play a few matches tonight.
I highly recommend using Energy Saver instead of Instant On. I noticed weird quirks when using Instant On so I haven’t really used it in a long time. There is a rare occasion I was downloading a lot of files while I slept so I had it on Instant On and every game seems to run worse by doing so for an extended period of time.
Like you I do hope they find a solution to the micro-stuttering in Gears 4 but I’d be happy even if it was implemented in Gears 5 if it can’t be done here. I just don’t want Gears 5 to be a frustrating experience because honestly I don’t think my Gears fandom can survive another broken lagfest.
Thanks. Instant On shall be disabled henceforth .
did Gears 4 used to play better for you? I know you ranked up to diamond or something high, so was that accomplished while dealing with sticky walls and sponging and the other problems that come with laggy opponents?
Diamond 3 (87% to D4) is the highest I got so far. I did it in Season 3 and Season 5 but missed it in Season 4 because I gave up after 5 straight matches of quitters dropping me from Onyx 3 98% to Onyx 3 30%. This was and still is done while dealing with really inconsistent connections. I am good enough to succeed with it but I’d be much better if I didn’t have to adapt every second of a match to a new play style just because someone’s connection changes mid game.
Also, no it hasn’t really played better. The past year and a half has been really poor due to unstable connections from primarily Mexico. It’s an uphill battle playing with them because their connections are almost always the worst you will run into and they’re in nearly every match. And this game runs at its worst when there are high fluctuations which is generally their norm.
First thanks for the greatly detailed reply, much appreciated.
I have a question/clarification request about what you said in this quote, re client side hit detection.
I just wish to understand hit detection a little better.
Is it the case, as you seem to imply, that hit detection and damage allocation happens on the client side? And these cases of hits-which-dont-show-up-as-hits is simply a case of the data not reaching the server in time?
This is important for the reason that if so, lag wouldn’t impact hit detection: the issue of “the server thought he was somewhere else than where he appeared on my screen” would not be an issue, the only thing that mattered would be where he is on my screen when I shoot…
Is my understanding of this correct?
**Sorry I will be editing this a lot, due to a lot of subjects to reply to.
I want to start off by saying I truly appreciate the reply, its awesome to get some real feedback! Iv been a huge fan of the game since GoW1 came out, and its always been the main game I have played.
With all of that said, what is the main difference in the client to server registration from previous gears? Was something new tested, or tweaked in this one?
I ask because, in the previous gears of war titles it did not seem to have this level of inconsistency when it comes to Gnasher game play and with various other weapons, I focus and stress mainly the Gnasher consistency because I feel like a lot of players would agree that is a major element of the game.
Also is there a difference between core and comp client to server detection? I feel like the weapons have way more consistency when it comes to gibbing people than core does.
I get that, and I like the aspect of map control, but at the same time its truly not all to rare to spawn directly with a player from the opposite team (in KoTH).
Im going to lump all of these together sense there are they are all essentials of “MatchMaking”
As for the ranks, what are the thoughts on having “Personal Performance Ratings” and or “K/D” determine your rank and not as much Wins and Losses. I am all for Wins and Losses being a big part of a ranking system, But if its going to be the major aspect of it them then that game mode it should require you to have a full team to even search for that game mode. And if it does not require a full team to search for that game mode then a win should just be a bonus to your increase to a game if you played well, and slighten your decrease if you played bad. But to me it seems extremely unfair when you do not play with a full squad, and you have a great game but loss as a team and it just tanks your rating. Diamond and high onyx should be more so reserved for players who play very good on a consistent biases and not who “Wins” on a consistent biases. because being honest there are a hand full of players who are not very good but play on a really good team so they get a really good rank and thats not how it should be. and thats why people are able to “sell” carries to increase peoples rank.
as for the player matchmaking it self i fell like previous season should have no effect on the current season. a new season should be a clean slate for everyone and make it difficult to re obtain that rank .
with that said i dont mean there actually match making skill level should reset each season, but the “recommended tier” should reset each season. it seems like if you had a high rank last season and you finish your placements you almost always go right back to the rank you or very close instead of working from low to the top again. I feel like gold 1 or so should be the max you can get for right out of the bat then have to battle up to diamond in stead of starting diamond one or two each season or even onyx three.
as for the Regions topic.
If its a issue with population per playlist that would be help a bit with having one tuning that way communities are not as split, and I fully believe if you ping reaches a certain range during a game it should remove you from the game, and if this happens often to a player it should put them in a “blacklist” for match making where they mainly get matched with other players in the same “blacklist” unless they play “X” amount of games without having the issue then they can be taken out of it. It is not the most fair option but to play multiplayer games you should be held to at least having a decent internet connection and not be able to ruin others players games.
I left out the Split tuning and Cool Downs topic and ill attempt to get in touch with @Nodezero
Again I appreciate the response a TON, and I hope this thread and its communication stay a live continuing to get responses from fans and people on the team.
I think instead of us not having a team member at all they should spawn a drone it beats being playerless
Another flaw with the matchmaking system is the quitting early penalty. Although I understand that it exists to sway players from quitting, it has become a huge problem. During the search for other players, there is a risk of getting a penalty before the match even starts! There have been countless times where I’m in a lobby that is loading into a match, and someone quits, and the lobby is dissolved, and I GET A 30 MINUTE PENALTY! It’s infuriating.I did nothing wrong, yet i still have to wait 30 min. It averts me from playing the game entirely. It also separates your entire lobby half the time (if you are playing with your buddies) and have to frantically yell at them to stop the automatic matchmaking and re-join your lobby again and start over. I know I’m not the only one, so it makes me wonder how many other players stopped playing this game because of this.