Gears Forums

(TC) SERIOUS multiplayer issues that NEED to be addressed (Vids)


(DJ NME) #206

Agree with OP. Also, just a little thing. Locust orientated bounties would be nice. But irrelevant to the important stuff.


(Jax Demon) #207

The game needs to fix the issue where people with higher pings get rewarded. The games utter crap online due to this flaw. You shouldn’t be punished for having a good ping on a game that has servers. It’s lazy game coding.


(XxWARxXDa KiinG) #208

TC doesn’t care just don’t buy Gears 5 when it comes out. We need to boycott


(MYKN1F3URF4C387) #209

Can someone here tell me why if I won 4 out of 5 determining rank matches I’m put in bronze when I finished the season before in onyx? Is this a known issue with this ranking system? Also I really don’t play much. I also have been placed on a team of onyx and gold vs diamonds (the whole other team) 3 of them pc players. They typed a message before the game even started already saying GGs :roll_eyes:


(blindeyes133) #210

I play on PC, and would like to know why I can’t even get into casual matches with people on console. I fully understand why people in ranked wouldn’t want to play with PC people, but in casual you have ■■■■■■■ BOTS TARGETING PEOPLE THROUGH WALLS and people with 6 billion ping. Also, since console players are given the choice of playing with PC, why not give PC the option to play ranked w/ console players if the following criteria are met;
-Controller
-Base FOV
Alternatively, if The Coalition feels like KB/M gives an unfair advantage, I can dig that, but so does having an elite controller. Ban those too if fairness is a concern.


(xSTREET GIBSx) #211

6.1K Views! Thank you guys for continually chiming in! Hopefully something is made out of it in the next gears!

They should consider featuring the more popular post on the forums. That would be a good way to get the most people involved @EVIL_0NE :eyes:


(Sci0n) #212

Its not most peoples connections, its the game itself, just look at the games servers

enought said.


(Krylon Blue) #213

It’s likely a mixture of everything to be honest. I’ve had issues with low pings too. Just yesterday we destroyed this team on 2v2 where we were all around 30ms. The next match we played the same team but this time one of them had a 60ms for some reason. I’m not sure if it was a different server but the hit detection this time was fairly inconsistent. Obviously, a 60ms ping isn’t bad so the game did a poor job of handling it. We had several low ping matches afterwards and it ran pretty smooth. But we also had several 100ms opponents where the sponging was unreal.

The servers work fine for other games but I do believe they need to be upgraded to a higher tick rate moving forward. But overall the real issue is the netcode because a high ping makes low pings feel sluggish and sticky. If you’re within the 80-150ish range you not only sponge but you’re killing us before you’re even around the wall and killable by us. If you’re above that range then you’re suffering too but you’re still making it feel awful for the low pings.

Lesson here? This netcode sucks.


(Sci0n) #214

Its the servers, also where do you think the netcode comes from?, any deadicated server game ping should not be above 50ms let alone 191ms. as I can tell you now having a low pings means ■■■■ in thisa game.

The servers/netcode are the real reason the game has to many inconsistent games. As with a game that has high ping servers + hign ping players = bad lag comp + bad gameplay end of.

The gears franchise is dead, This is the reason its going on xbox game pass as no one cares for it any more, after 6 games all with the same issues/inconsistent gameplay should tell any gamer this game will not learn.

I do beleive they have the servers/netcode like this so they can have wall boucning gameplay as if the servers were 10ms and the netcode did compinsate for high ping players, wall boucing would loikk stupid as shots would land on players and would out right get killed and not sponge shots while playing like that.

Also those gamers would cry like babies do to no being able to sponge, they would get owned every time, but TC dont want this norte did EPic as if they change it, people would cry… the series is dead.

Just think how much they earned off RNG loot boxes but couldnt even use decent servers, TC are a joke of a dev, gears needs a major overhaul or just keep an SP + horde game as its clear they can not fix this series


(Krylon Blue) #215

Why am I being paired against players with 170ms pings from Brazil? If I shoot a player that’s literally stationary 4 times and do 0 damage but I explode without him shooting on my screen there’s a big issue there. Especially when I’m pinging at 31ms and am seeing things way after they happen just because a player with a high ping wants to play. What the hell is a Brazil player even doing on US servers? It may as well be considered cheating because they take 0 damage from me.

A competitive Gnasher doesn’t work against these players when I’m so far behind them in time with these non-existent trade windows. They should be the ones exploding because I should see them first. Instead, 4 shots to the back does 0% but they shoot around walls. That’s broken. No excuse for this to still happen.


(MYKN1F3URF4C387) #216

Well whatever it is netcode or just whatever it needs fixed because it’s
Infuriating.


(SuperStevie09) #217

deserved two thumbs up


(Ess CHIMICHANGA) #218

Good pots :smiley:


(RedDoog888) #219

Hi

May i ask what is cool downs? I do not understand.


(Dabbbs) #220

Couldn’t agree more


(Hot Chili Fries) #221

This is the exact argument I’ve presented to anyone who constantly states that developers “just can’t fix it right away.” The part that everyone ignores is that these companies are selling products that are supposed to be up to a certain standard, and if that standard is not met, then why would they charge full price for it?

Not only that, but we are in the age where games are making so much money it’s unfathomable. Loot boxes, req packs, gear packs; you name it, they are reelin’ in the dough, yet there are thousands of players who are willing to accept the excuse of “oh we just don’t have the resources to resolve the issue at the moment.”

I’m no expert on economics, but I’m pretty sure that money and resources is not an issue for these gigantic companies, and if they can’t see the investment in allocating a certain amount of what they got into fixing games to the point where they can maintain a steady and loyal fan base, then idk what to say.


(Omen LP) #222

That gave a really good chuckle…

Microsoft has been making money off of Windows for over 2 decades and only recently has the OS been approaching a somewhat good solid product.

For all those years their specialty was lowering everyone’s expectations to where their products became the standard…

Wait, who owns TC and the Gears IP? Hmm…


(III EnVii III) #223

Windows XP, 7 & 10 are solid, I’ve not experienced any issues myself.


(TC Octus) #224

There’s a lot to unpack here so bear with me on this one. I’ve talked to the team to get as many answers as possible.

  • Weapon Registration - The main concern with weapon registration is the gnasher, sadly its not the only one though. For example, I’v seen while playing and recordings of people getting shot in the stomach with a long range weapon capable of head shots, and it registering as a head shot even though it wasn’t even close to the head. Then with the with the Gnasher there are TONS of times people get shot blood comes out yet it says 0% damage was done Example (Video) . Even worse there are times the player should have been gibbed and took 0 Damage Example (Video) . Ill leave a link below to even more examples of this happening, yes I am aware not all of them should have been gibs and that I missed some of my shots, but a decent amount of them should have been kills my main focus here is consistency which the weapons are clearly lacking, Link to more clips

As long as I’ve been a Gears fan, this has been a topic of discussion - it’s something all of us are acutely aware of at the studio and constantly think about as we try to make the best Gears MP we can.

However, the issue you are raising here is not so much registration. It’s actually to do with Client Side hit detection and how it’s represented to the player.

By having Client Side hit detection, when you hit something, we locally represent that instantly to you with the relevant amount of blood spray (usually) and send the damage you dealt to the server. While what you are seeing around you is a very close representation of what the server is seeing, latency obviously plays a part.

The main positive is that it creates an instant tangible experience in feedback terms. You hit someone, you see the impact of that, and what you did is sent to the server. However, in the instances it’s not, that means you can see a kill shot that didn’t actually play out on the server.

Kill Trading was implemented to make for a fairer system. With Kill Trades, we allow a small amount of travel time after a kill packet is received for another kill packet to be received. This is because, without it, if I fired at exactly the same time as you, but my ping to the server is 30 and yours is 50, I would win every time purely because I was closer to the server.

So why didn’t that play out? Your first clip is a prime example of the impact of a small trade window. The community feedback was that Kill Trading was frustrating, so the window is set pretty low (and is extremely small in Competitive).

In your first clip, that’s a prime example of a small Kill Trade window that doesn’t allow for much latency differential. You undoubtably hit your shot locally, but he hit his shot on the server before you AND before your hit packet arrived in the short time we allow a check afterwards. In other words, what you saw on the client side was not the net result.

In your second clip, at least from what I could see with the compression, none of those hits were more than a couple of pellets.

In many of the clips in your montage in your last link, your shots where you hit 70 etc are not full spread hits (as seen with pellets hitting the floor, wall etc) and therefore didn’t gib. Hitting someone in gib range but not with the full spread doesn’t mean you should get the kill - that’s part of the skill gap.

Regardless of all that, it’s something we’re always thinking about and exploring how we could potentially improve.

  • Spawns - This mainly is for King of the Hill. There have been dozens of times iv spawned right next to someone spawning on the opposite team, which should never happen. Also where you spawn should not single-handedly determine a game, there are tons of games that my team has won because the opposite team just kept spawning so far away, and the other way around. I understand spawn points are not the easiest to determine in a game type with re spawns but the current set up right now almost makes it unplayable.

Couple things:

  1. We find spawning next to an opponent is an extremely rare circumstance. Do you mean spawning close to another player’s spawn? The spawns are governed by player positions and the ring, so sometimes that’s the only spawn option available.

  2. You can absolutely play the spawn system in what’s known as anchoring. For example, if you place a player in the closest standard TDM spawn on Checkout when the ring is on the low cover near the platform, you’ll almost always cause your team to get the closest spawn to the Hill. Knowing how to control the spawns and where to hold a player - and when to go fight that player to secure better spawns - is part of the system.

Ranking System - The ranking system clearly still needs A LOT of work, the ranking system doesn’t seem very consistent yet either. For example you state that if you are winning most of your games and playing well you will climb the ranks fairly smoothly, but once you start winning around the same amount as you lose your at the perfect ranks, or that if you lose more than win your rank is to high and will start to go down. This must not be the case at all over my last 10 KotH games I went 9-1 playing solo, 7 of those games I was MVP, and Smooth operator. Yet the total amount my rank changed over those 10 games was 5% up. the lose dropped me 5% and over the 9 wins i went up 10%. I just have a hard time understanding that you claim its “Working as Intended”

It’s working as intended. It’s accurate and generally it’s producing very good matches.

However, you are completely right. The Ranking System does need work. It’s not user friendly, it’s difficult to understand and it’s very opaque. While the logic behind it is absolutely effective, the way the Ranking System works and is presented is far from ideal.

Nodezero talked about this on stream a little while ago but to repeat it here; we planned to have a richer Ranking System, but in all the establishing work that went into building Gears 4 from the ground up, it didn’t make it into the game. What we have today is an accurate effective system for measuring skill but not the usability / readability that you’d expect to come with that.

Matchmaking - The Matchmaking doesnt seem to be working as intended either, as some games I have people on my team multiple tiers below me, or people on the opposite team will be multiple tiers below. Id understand this happening if the game took a long time to find so it kept expanding the search for players, but thats not the case most games are found in under 30 seconds. Also there are a lot of times teams of people playing solo get matched up with teams of 5,doesnt make sense that is happening in a ranked game mode, maybe add a solo que feature for when people are playing a lone they can only play against other people that are alone.4.5.

A few things here:

Tiers =/= Skill Rating. Your Skill Rating (SR) is a behind the scenes value that calculates your Skill based on your performance against other players as both an individual and team. This also takes into account consistency in your Skill Rating to eventually determine a more and more accurate measurement of your skill.

Even after Placement Matches, you will always start below your current SR so you have more matches to prove yourself and something to work towards - based on feedback we received from Season 1 and 2. How high you can climb is based on where your SR falls on the skill curve (determined by Tier Skill Rating or TSR).

In other words, while you might feel like you’re on an imbalanced match based on the Tiers in the room, that might not be a reflection of their current SR. They may still be climbing to that Rank.

Secondly, if the match is imbalanced, the system knows this and predicts for you to lose. Outperforming expectations as an individual or team in these circumstances results in the system likely upping your behind the scenes Skill Rating.

Tier Skill Rating wise, you will never go down from a win or up from a loss. But your Skill Rating absolutely can. Any time you outperform expectations, you might not see immediate results but you will feel the benefits on further wins if you keep performing well (and vice versa).

Regions - What is the point in region locking when 90% of the time you do not even play with people in your region, I feel like things have gotten worse since then. I do not lag unless there is a lag spike in the server that effects everyone, typically I have 20 or less ping. I play using a Ethernet cord, and I have fiber-optic internet at the speeds 75mbps down - 50 mbps up. Which I believe the region set up may have to do with the registration issues listed above due to lag compensation.

The lag spikes in the server are an active issue we’re working on and have been improving for some time. We’re continuing to address that as a priority.

As for Matchmaking, it’s a combination of the population of players in that playlist, who are within our allowable ping range, who are within your allowable skill range and who are searching at the same time as you. We hear the feedback from players in certain regions who struggle at certain times and from players who have issues with higher ping players in their game. It’s a balance we’re continuing to look at.

As an added point, we are also thinking about players with varying pings that are destructive for online play. Players in the 300+ range (even 200+ in many cases) should not be in those games, but they are able to make it through the filter because their ping is variable (Ie. during the search their ping was okay and then it spiked after). We’re thinking about that.

We’re also currently looking at our Matchmaking system to determine if there’s any bugs or unforseen issues causing some oddities in match ups sometimes.

Split Tunings

Skipping over this just because we’ve talked about it many times. There’s positives and negatives to the decision and it’s something we are not done thinking about. Ryan is often talking out there on Twitter about stuff like this, so I’d highly recommend tweeting @Nodezero!

CoolDowns - For the love of god please REMOVE Cooldowns, all you are doing is forcing a certain playstyle that some people do not like, many people like my self prefer to be able to have free movement and be able to play aggressively while getting kills, and not rolling because “we didnt wait a second to try to shoot”. Seriously who does this make the game better for? All it does is add even more of a skill “Cap” when in a competitive/ranked game that should never be the case.

Again, a great discussion for @Nodezero.

Quitters

This is a huge focus for us. Our data shows our Quit Penalties have had a notable impact on the number of matches with Quitters but we can always do more. We can never stop Quitting, but we do want to do everything we can to deter it (or make it hurt like hell if you do leave).

Kill Trading - For the love of god just remove this or make it so it only happens if the players press there buttons at the SAME EXACT TIME, and not just without X amount of time of each other.

Competitive does this and Core basically does this. As noted at the top of this post though, the more we reduce it, the more you’ll see a shot you hit get ignored because your ping was slightly higher. Everything has a positive and negative.

I hope that helps answer a lot of your concerns / questions as a starting point. I’m prepping to go to Mexico City for our next Pro Circuit event, so responses may be a little sporadic over the next week, but I’m going to try and dive into this thread as much as I can now I’ve had a lot of the relevant conversations at the studio I wanted to have first.


All some one has to do is make sure their pung is over 80 and just compulsively wall bounce
(DAVID THE CLOWN) #225

Thank you!