I think this card should either also trigger if you are set on fire by either enemy attacks or stepping in your own flames, or last for several seconds after being initially triggered by getting close to a burning enemy. I think it’s a good card in theory, but the tiny activation range combined with the fact that burning enemies tend to die extremely quickly means it’s hard to really get good use out of.
I’ve been using it more lately with the tackle build for Brawler. The healing is extremely fast. My only issue with it is the ridiculously short activation range. 2.5 meters is way too small for something like this, as you essentially have to be touching the enemy for it to proc.
Imagine if the 5m Inflitrator bleed range was cut further in half. THAT is how close you have to be with both Soothing Warmth and Thrill of the Hunt from Blademaster. IMO these should both be buffed to a minimum of 5 meters. And that is just to make them actually reliable in melee/evade range.
Soothing Warmth should work with the Scorcher and Flame Grenades IMO. Maybe even buff the proc range further to equal the max of whatever the Scorcher’s cut off range is. Imagine being able to face-tank while burning stuff. This would make it good for both tackle and ranged builds. Although I imagine that the heal rate may have to be reduced a bit if it worked like this, IDK just guessing.
That might make it too strong, but Soothing Warmth should AT LEAST be buffed to 5 meters for more reliable use in CQC where it currently has a limited home.
1 Like
I think the problem is, Cole/Brawler as a whole is simply badly designed from the outset in terms of balancing. I mean, the amount of damage that he can tank through skill cards, as well as regenerate health and stim through his tackle attacks (which is a passive skill) is insane. Once you factor in some lesser used cards like Soothing Warmth, and you’re moving the class into super-tanky territory. And as things are now Cole/Brawler is already very tanky.
1 Like
In some ways, I agree. Although Brawler IS a tank class, so it kinda makes some sense.
The damage resistance of the ultra-tanky build got hit hard in Op 5 by going from 95% to 75% resistance while sprinting (great for Escape balance but a big nerf for Horde). Not to mention, the buff to fire burning has actually somewhat been a drawback when using Torch Tackle, as enemies are much more likely to die from burning out, meaning that I can’t get stim from tackle kills to heal and stay alive (I wish burn kills counted for the passive like bleed does for Blademaster and Inflitrator’s Reaper card).
So, with all that in mind, I am starting to really dislike Inner Fire. Not because it isn’t good, but because it throws off build balance, is practically a requirement for survivability, and restricts you from being able to use your Ult as Brawler (therefore hindering damage output, especially on bigger enemies), not to mention uses up a card slot just to help you not get instantly melted in late-wave Master games. Inner Fire in its current form really contributes to limiting Brawler’s potential in Horde, in more ways than one.
I so wish that more damage resistance would be added back to Brawler for Horde. Wether via a perk, or even as simple as just transferring some of the damage resistance from Inner Fire to Damage Dash. (For example, I suggest making it 55% for Damage Dash and only 20% for Inner Fire, instead of 40% and 35%, respectively). To make the class less focused on saving the Ult all the time.
Right now Inflitrator is overall better IMO, due to being nearly just as tanky as full-tank Brawler, but is much easier to kill things with, big or small, has no problems refreshing the stim like Brawler does, and can still freely use the Ult whenever it wants.
1 Like
Not sure about the nades, but it definitely works with the Scorcher while it has Active. In close quarters I can kill guardians by just running straight at them with an active Scorcher (on Advanced, obvs)
Actually, I forgot about that. It is because Active Scorcher applies the Burn status effect. I so think that normal Scorcher should too though, and the grenades because why not lol.
Otherwise, I definitely think that Soothing Warmth should have a big buff to the activation range. The classic ‘tackle, roll back, tackle again’ CQC method makes it all too easy to roll completely out of the pitiful 2.5 meter range. It should be made possible to continue healing even when constantly rolling back to start tackling. Wether the trigger range is buffed (my preference), or even your idea to heal for some time even after moving out of range.
The card definitely needs a buff, among other Brawler fixes.
2 Likes
Changing it to last for a few seconds after being triggered would also help in when using the tackle chain combo, while also having the side benefit of working after nearby enemies burn to death, as they’re wont to do.
I kinda like the idea of giving it a timer, the more I think of it. However, in regards to the enemies dying to fire and causing you to lose the heal? I think that there is a pretty good roundabout solution for that:
Make it so that both tackle AND burn kills trigger the stim passive.
Why do I suggest this? Similar to the problem you have. Since Op 5 buffed the burn damage, the tackle build has had an issue with enemies burning out before I can tackle them again for stim. Meaning a lot of unfortunate downs and deaths because of that.
Blademaster’s passive works with both melee AND bleed kills, and so does Inflitrator’s Reaper card working with both shotgun AND bleed kills as well. I see no reason why Brawler’s passive can’t be buffed to also work on both tackle AND burn kills too (burn being similar to bleed). It helps SO MUCH for consistency with those other CQC classes.
Sure, it would also buff the ranged build for Brawler, but I don’t think that is a bad thing, since it is supposed to be a tank, and the ranged build usually sacrifices a lot of damage resistance anyway.
With this in mind, I don’t think that Soothing Warmth would need a timer, just a bit bigger of a proc range. Once again, for consistency reasons.
I WOULD however also be sure to make it so that the burn status duration time would itself get reset each time you hit the same enemy with a burn attack. So annoying using Torch Tackle and losing the damage boost because a Scion stops burning while I am still tackling it over and over.
1 Like
I used to run Soothing Warmth instead of Inner Fire before I discovered the absurd dmg resistance with that card (pre Op5 of course). It was acting very weird indeed. It felt like as if it sometimes worked and sometimes didn’t, even when the enemy was next to you and on fire. Therefore I do agree with the buff to 5m but I don’t think it will do much of a difference. The old deck with Inner Fire still works pretty well even after the heavy nerf. Just have to be more careful with the tackles and movement. Really gotta land that second tackle on the same enemy now or it quickly becomes nasty.
Regarding ranged build, that one can actually be quite some fun in Master Horde if the active reload modifier is on and preferably no execution rules. All that’s needed is really just a Lancer and a Hammerburst with the ammo regen perk and you can slow down and burn anything to death.
That would be true for early waves. Soothing Warmth is more effective on tankier enemies like Scions, DR-1’s, Pouncers and after 2.0x health poison where Drones and Grenadiers take 2+ or more tackles. The purpose of Soothing Warmth is to keep you alive while tackling a tanky enemies or multiple enemies at once. It’s not effective on low HP enemies like Juvies and flushers.
Brawler has cooldown perk, which allows them to get it back fast. When a boss is frozen, I would use ultimate to nearly instantly destroy Snatcher / Carrier. It is insane they can pull that off. Then I would get ultimate back in the next wave. The only difference between having Inner Fire buff and not, is that you can’t roam outside the base without it, to survive some shots. Without it, it has to be played defensive until got ultimate back.
Infiltrator requires shotguns and ammunition. Brawler doesn’t. Infiltrator has to put more effort into aiming and hitting enemies at close range, cover management and can’t hit anything while running. If they lose stim, they won’t be as tanky as Brawler and it further hinders their combat performance, not being able to go in enemies face, without going downed. Brawler doesn’t have to bother with weapons or ammunition, and requires less perks. It only needs health perk. Infiltrator performs best with all four perks so much more pricey being perk dependent. Brawler finishes perk way earlier and can start donating, which is helpful for Engineers.
I’m probably in the minority, but I have always preferred Soothing Warmth over All the Glory and always used it since its release. I don’t like the destructive nature of All the Glory. I mostly play Escape, as we know friendly fire is on, I despair every time I come across a Cole with All the Glory on Escape, deciding to tackle an enemy I am dealing with and putting me down to 1% health.
Cole can be a destructive tank or a distractive tank. I prefer the latter.
1 Like
I’ve been trying this out lately. All so I can use the Ult whenever. Seems to increase the average damage and kill output of CQC Brawler by a good bit. Noticeably squishier than when using Inner Fire but Soothing Warmth helps a little to compensate for not having that. Seems to help alleviate the pain of enemies sometimes burning out and dying before they can be tackled again for stim too. The rest of my cards are Torch Tackle, Damage Dash, Perk Up, and All the Glory (for Horde).
5 meter range buff for Soothing Warmth so needs to happen.
Agreed here. Definitely meant to help face-tank under fire. Just need that range buff for more consistency and it is pretty good.
Alright, I’ll admit. I haven’t really tried using the Ult on bosses much when using Inner Fire. But the difference between having it and not just throws me off so bad, so I usually just always sit on the Ult and not use it. Cooldown Perk is great though, for sure.
Inner Fire is depended upon too much for Brawler tankiness, IMO. It should be the icing on the cake, not half the damage resistance. I hope that at some point TC can transfer some of the resist numbers from Inner Fire to Damage Dash. In GoW4, the card for sprinting resist went up to 55%, from what I remember. Give that to Damage Dash, then reduce Inner Fire to 20%. Would be great for card balance, I think. Then the difference isn’t as drastic wether it is used or not.
Shotguns aren’t hard to find or sustain ammo for, most of the time. In Horde (which is mainly where I say it is better at), Inflitrator can easily live off the boxes found on the map. It may require a little bit of aim, but blasting things with shotguns is much safer as you don’t have to get as close to melee/tackle. The stim is IMO significantly easier to maintain, partially because it is safer to shoot, the damage output is stronger, the rate of fire is faster than repeated tackling, and especially because bleed kills count, even on self-destructing Rejects, DR -1s, and Poppers. Currently on Brawler if enemies burn out you lose your chance at stim. Plus, Inflitrator actually starts with Flashbangs to help make an opening to decrease risk, and the Ult can be easily used to either get away or even simply get free stim back for that resistance.
As far as perks go, they are about even IMO.
Inflitrator doesn’t really need Health Regen with Reaper, neither Extra Health because it is all about the stim. Shotgun damage and Movement speed definitely yes.
Brawler’s Damage perk actually buffs tackle and melee damage, believe it or not.Handy to keep up somewhat late game. And of course there is the Health Perk, and Ult Cooldown if not relying on Inner Fire. Ammo Regen isn’t necessary no.
Brawler’s effectiveness is also quite dependant on Taps in Horde, where instead Inflitrator doesn’t have to worry about them as much since stim is independent of that. Inflitrator can absolutely wreck bosses out of Cloak, but Brawler isn’t near as much of a damage dealer.
IDK, Inflitrator is better IMO and more like how CQC characters should be. Very reliable survivability, heavy CQC damage, and Flashbangs to start (all CQC classes should have Flashbangs IMO). Not that I can’t play Brawler, I have since it came out as Cole in Op 3. But nowadays since Op 5, Inflitrator is WAY easier to do the same thing.
1 Like
Brawler never should have been fire-based if you ask me. Brawler’s best build (arguably) is a ranged one, it’s completely unintuitive and misleading. (“Gunner” having Torque Bow cards is weird to me too. I know why it has them, I just think some cards should’ve been moved around to better fit classes rather than characters).
I would have much rather had a new assault class called Pyro for the Scorcher and fire cards, you could even give it some grenadier qualities since I know that was a big one that people wanted. (Too bad they gave Gambit to Demo instead of Slugger).
I could agree with this. I think that Brawler is fairly alright in this regard, but yeah, some of these cards on some classes make no sense whatsoever.
1 Like
I have a feeling that TC made their decision to do away with the old Heroes system a while ago - maybe around the time Op 3 because they realised they couldn’t sustain the output of Hero characters, so some skill card ideas ended up being added to whateever ideas they had at the time.
Some people have speculated that Benjamin was going to be the ranged pyro Hero character, but once they dropped the Heroes system they probably just added it to the Brawler.
I will say though that I kinda appreciate the hybrid builds that are only possible because of how some classes must have gotten merged, like Brawler and Nomad both having the option for CQC AND ranged builds.
I mean at least it makes sense for Nomad to have both when it’s basically a jack-of-all-trades and master-of-none, not to mention its name doesn’t make you (or at least me) think of one playstyle.
I’m all for classes with customizable playstyles but Brawler just seems like a disorganized mess.
I do think that they could have had some better names for some classes, for sure. Brawler makes perfect sense except for the fire part lol. Robotics Expert should have just been Combat Engineer (Engi that helps kill stuff on the frontlines). Slugger should have just been called Grenadier, etc. But oh well.
1 Like