Gears Forums

Skill gap between Comp and Core players


(IIMatracII) #22

When you see people with bad movement and dont have pin point accuracy they are usually not very good so it doesn’t matter what playlist they re on. What I am talking about is that a D5 Esc player will probably have better movement and slightly better aim than a D5 Tdm player.


(GB6 Kazuya) #23

What a very, very obvious point.

You’re still wrong, you can’t say that. Everyone is different. Take the Longshot for example. Good Snipers will aim for the head regardless of the playlist. Do you think a D5 Core player wlll aim for the shoulder because he thinks the hit detection will guarantee him a headshot? There’s no logic there.

As for movement, people who can wallbounce efficiently, can simply wallbounce efficiently in general. I’m sure @III_EnVii_III knows people who can hyperbounce effectively with tactical precision in all playlists in both tunings. Plus let’s not forget Comp movement is now in Core tuning, so that further invalidates that point.


(Hatrick Her0) #24

THIS IS A DUMB POST.
A D5 CORE PLAYER WILL BEAT A D5 COMP PLAYER ON CORE
A D5 COMP PLAYER WILL BEAT A D5 CORE PLAYER ON COMP
MAINLY BECAUSE PLAYERS STICK TO 1 TUNING AND DO GOOD AT WHAT THEY ARE USED TOO.a


(Omen LP) #25

I was thinking about and I think I have a Baseball analogy (which will probably be meaningless to anyone outside of North America, but …)

Playing Core is like playing Baseball with “special” bats which cause most hits to be Triples and Home Runs.

Playing Comp is like playing Baseball with “special” bats which cause most hits to be Singles and Doubles.

I don’t think one would be easier than the other, Sure, the first one would have higher scores, but both teams would have higher scores, so the fact that it’s “easier” to get an individual run doesn’t mean it’s easier to win the game…

They would be slightly different games with different individual skills being more important in different ones… For example, with singles, fast running for stealing bases might be more valuable than if all you did was hit home runs…

They are just different… Comp is about cumulative damage put onto your opponent, and Core is more about the 1 or 1-2 knockout punches… IMO… YMMV


(III EnVii III) #26

Trying to argue the point is difficult when people are too far up their own certain area.

The word “Competitive” just blind their reasoning.

Weak rifle and weak shotgun that does not make sense or feel like a Gears Game is a style I accept some will like.

But like you said, the movement is the same.

The principal is the same. You aim and shoot.

In Comp - you get closer.

In Comp - you have to hit more Lancer bullets.

That is it.

I’m sure the poor old D5 TDM player will somehow manage against the Bronzes in Escalation :roll_eyes:


(III EnVii III) #27

Exactly and their players, where, if they invest time in both, can equally be great at both.


(IIMatracII) #28

Both tunings suck in my opinion


(GB6 Kazuya) #29

Precisely…it must pain them to even be the presence of peasants from Core.:

Couldn’t agree more. Good man. Gears is a brutal, violent game. It just doesn’t feel right with pitiful weaponry.


(Violent Anarchy) #30

I like both but prefer comp the weapon balance is better cores balance seems to gears 3 overpowered but will play sometimes


(BetaX2r) #31

This…

There is zero difference in AIM requirements between Comp and Core. You just have to be closer in Comp as the damage drop off is steeper. Both have AIM assist (assuming you are on console). If you are a Core player primarily, you may just not be use to having to be in closer range to be effective with the Gnasher. There is no Gnasher sniping like in Core :slight_smile:


(mike yaworski) #32

That’s not true actually, for two reasons:

  1. Core has bullet magnetism (as demonstrated in my quoted reply below)
  2. Core can full red opponents with only hitting a little of your spread. So you can have bad accuracy and still do enough damage for downs. In Comp, if you miss most of your spread, you’re not doing nearly enough damage for the down.

(mike yaworski) #33

Agreed that Gears feels better (mechanically) with Core. Two shot downs with a Gnasher feel clean af. And Core is more balanced when it comes to ping differences as well (due to trades and forgiving shotgun spreads).

But this post is about which one takes more skill to be good at.

While this is true, it’s more than that. As well as getting closer, you have to hit more of your spread to do more damage. Since Core has bullet magnetism and does enough damage to still be lethal even while missing, you really don’t need to be as accurate to win the fight.

E.g. in Core, maybe you only hit with 3/10 pellets doing 50% damage. Do that twice and you have a down. Your opponent hits 7/10 pellets doing 80% damage. Do that twice and he has a down. It’s equal. But in Comp, the 7/10 pellets guy wins every time.


(III EnVii III) #34

And I find that a player can reach their skill ceiling in either Tuning if they play it enough.

Of course, some people will be better at one or the other, neither is harder or easier to be good at.

If all you’ve ever played is Comp, then that’s what you know and that’s what you will adapt and adjust to.

Same for Core.

If you have played both enough, then you can absolutely translate your skills over.

Core has traditional weapon damage, get a strong shotgun in hands of a novice will not magically make them better.

Comp is more forgiving in the sense of a weak Lancer and Gnasher, it does not however allow the novice to walk through people.

Both Tunings require the appropriate adjustment - once you’ve played enough, there’s nothing easier or harder.

The amount of point blanks in Core do make you do a double take as well - it’s not always straight forward I enjoy outplaying someone good who has landed the first shot.

With Comp, there is a little more wtf moments. Especially when you hit 1, 2, 3 clean bullets only to get gibbed in one due to the damage drop off being quite steep.

The point is, stronger weapons is also a barrier for some in Core.

Weaker Weapons also means it’s less intense in one way and more in another because then people just focus more Lancer fire on you.

Depends on the distance.

I find Comp Gnasher via online play more inconsistent than Core.

I’ve not played it via LAN but I imagine it’s a much better experience.

However - I have hit clean shots, multiple shots close range in Comp and not got the down or gib.

Same in Core.

I have gone through 3-4 shots on 98% damage and got the kill on both Core and Comp as well.

I do not find Core to be more forgiving if you miss your spread - that’s where all these 83% shots come from - people have missed.

All in all, people find it hard to adjust to Comp because they are usually coming from Core and it does take getting used to.

But I haven’t seen anyone not be able to translate their skill in core into comp.

It all boils down to Aim and Movement - in either - the accurate person will win and with movement, you can outplay if you didn’t land first or theirs multiple people coming at you.


(BetaX2r) #35

I am almost positive AIM assist is in both Core and Comp for console. On PC, there is no AIM assist in Comp. Im assuming when you refer to “magnetism” you are referring to AIM assist? If not, I’m not sure what you are talking about. Maybe there is different levels of AIM assist between Core and Comp? I haven’t seeing anything stated that suggests this, but maybe there is a different level.

Your second point supports my second point. Pellet damage is determined by range. From what Ive gathered, and after watching the video where the lead designer talks about it, the difference between Core and Comp damage is determined by range (and with some weapons where you hit them in the body). So ya, if you are 5 feet away and hit 5 of you pellets in Comp, its going to do less damage than if you are 5 feet away in Core and hit 5 of your pellets.


(Omen LP) #36

Hey @mike_yaworski, about those videos you guys did, showing damage aiming beyond the character, in Core…

I wonder if this is about the hit box sizes… To keep the hit boxes consistent across all characters, they have to extend beyond some characters’ bodies… So you might be catching just the outer edge of it?

Since Core does a lot more damage than Comp, of course you wouldn’t get the same damage in Comp, from that distance… So if you did the same experiment in Comp and in Core, from the same distance, it could be misleading.

I’m curious, if you tried that same experiment in Comp, closer, would it show the same results?

I.e. go Closer to the opponent (the Core vs Comp distance difference), and aim at the same angle away from the opponent… I wonder if that would still do the damage, like you showed in Core, from same angle, but from further away…

it might - so that would show that what appear to be near-misses still do damage, because of the size of the hit boxes, and the range is dependent on the tuning and its power…


(mike yaworski) #37

We did the tests in Comp as well for the same distances and I believe it didn’t have the “magnetism” that I’m referring to. So I don’t think it’s a hitbox thing. I think it’s an aim assist thing or just like Halo bullet magnetism.

Another reason I don’t think it’s a hitbox thing is because if you pause the videos, you can see that the spread is not even going where you’re aiming. Here is a frame from one of the videos:

image

And given that Marcus is a standard-sized character (perhaps even the standard), I hope it wouldn’t be a hitbox issue. But it’s a good thought.


(DAVID THE CLOWN) #38

I’m just waiting for @UniversalTuning to hop in here…


(hotbeatz85) #39

Honestly their is no skill imo if people were playing on Competitive Tuning on Core Playlist, they would be adjusted to the differences. That’s why universal tuning would be better honestly because nobody would be at a disadvantage.


(GeaR 614) #40

I think you just weren’t used to the tuning. My experience is “comp players” complain a lot about core when they play it. Personally I don’t mind either and have been able to reach the same ranks in Escalation as I have in TDM or KotH. With that said I’ve been playing almost exclusively KotH lately because you can’t find matches for comp and TDM takes a level of teamwork most players don’t have when playing solo.


(BetaX2r) #41

That’s the aim assist I’m assuming. Ryan the lead designer has a vid explaining this exact thing. Whether it’s a good thing or bad thing that’s up to you.