Siege Has 56+ Characters - Unique Heroes/Villains - So Why Did The Coalition Not Deliver On A Successful Hero System For Gears 5 PVE?

General Discussion
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#21

I don’t know much about Siege to make a honest judgement about this. But don’t forget, we are comparing a game that, for the most part, is near the completed article. If not is the completed article. Gears 5 is in the process of a major overhaul, and comparing it would be silly.

I believe if TC had carried on upon this path we would have had something similar. If we look at the characters for Horde, Escape and Versus, there are 34 characters with unique classes in Horde, Escape and Arcade.

If we consider that TC would go to OP8 in their characters, and presume they release 4 characters per operation (which they did for op2 and 3). If we presume that TC was to continue on the current system, by OP8, we would have 54 characters. Remarkably similar to your 56+ characters for Siege after 5 years.

And that’s presuming Gears 5 stopped support after about 2 years, which is quite short for a live service game.

The problem when it comes to PvE is that it is in the same game as PvP. It’s like CoD with their spec ops and zombies modes. Zombies players got shafted by Treyarch back in BO4. Firefight was an afterthought in Halo 5.

It is difficult when you have 3 modes all wanting their own support, and an extensive amount of it.

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#22

That’s not a detail given. It is an improvement Baird made over the Custom Lancer prototype of sorts created by Marcus at the Stroud Estate. I doubt it was made for anyone in particular and just general use for the COG army, as far as I can tell.

#23

So based on your comparison, Gears PvE Escape mode is the mode that is really getting the shaft here then, right? So why are some PvE fans cheering for this change as if it benefits them? That’s why I don’t see this change as “gift” to PvE fans at all as some of you believe. I think you’re being fooled. The change is really not for you, it’s actually a concession for PvP-only fans so they can give them more skins but they’re dressing up the announcement to make PvE people believe it meant to benefit them too.

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#24

Well, we are presuming that TC are not going to add any more classes after they do this, which, while possible, would disappoint PvE fans. Notice how a lot of people just want the characters taken away from the classes, and not taking the addition of classes taken away.

Furthermore, I am presuming that TC will make 4 characters every operation, but as you make more characters, they do become harder to make unique, whilst fit in with the lore. I imagine that making Cole will have been a huge task.

#25

I dont see this as being true. PvE players buy skins also thats why most of the skins that have been released in the store have been for the COG. People have been asking for the character lock from day 1.

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#26

I doubt escape kill best mod and overrun in popularity, escape is a good ideas but don’t push too much beast mod even when it was limited in gear 3 was cool you can play mod in control of the locust and there unique style and weakness and overrun was a test to push the limit of beast mod to put pve and pvp in same zone .

#27

Beast mode was a novel concept yes, but it died out very quickly after Gears 3’s launch. Escape I imagine will still sustain players a lot longer due to score competitions and such.

Overrun was in a much more unpopular game frankly, though I imagine it could be huge in GOW5/GOW6.

#28

After the live service end I doubt escape will keep going .
Even if time limit and classement are a thing without skin there is no reward the only thing left would be character card farm and exp .

But some concept of overrun on escape could work but we don’t have custom gamemode option so we can’t .

#29

They said Escape will carry on as normal but will not get any new features or fixes or anything updated in the foreseeable future.

I feel the game (Gears 5) is catered to noobs.

Escape is awesome. It needs major work and is a fun and viable PVE game in itself. It deserves more for serious players.

Bingo.

This is exactly why I compare Gears 5 to Siege. It is a shining and successful and LONG running example of how and why it works. Something NEW to Gears. Coalition already ripped off many many ideas from the game. It’s a good standard to follow as other games follow to adopt a similar practice.

#30

could be a combination of 2 things:
pve playerbase ■■■■■■■■ constantly about not being able to play the character they want - lack of resources to release a constant stream of original pve classes

as for the siege comparison, it isn’t gears, people didn’t play mozzie or nomad for free for multiple game iterations then forced to pay for the same exact skin they already had

if TC started as they’re trying today with the release of free characters but play/pay to earn classes, they would’ve possibly nailed it from the start or at least avoid the mess of going back and forth on their own promises
same concept applies to maps and many other aspects of the game

they just said it takes up to 6 months to develop and test a map, copy paste from other games isn’t exactly smooth still we have more legacy than original maps almost a year into the game

even their handling of issues hasn’t been ideal, we only got the imago skin as an apology for issues on their side and it was a few months ago where other companies give currency for free every time they have a server issue

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#31

Hero system never worked. Whilst a good idea in theory, if failed because it was done improperly. Instead of restricting characters, it should have been Classes, or Roles that needed restricting.

Engineers for instance, you should not have more than one of them, it is simply not worth having two Engineers fighting over the Energy, both building in different styles and at the end of the day, wasting Energy. Out of experience, if a second Engineer enters the field, i give the chance to the creator of the game, and the second Engineer, and if i am not left to my job, i leave. There is nothing wrong with my building, and i am a pretty good team player, if the team decides a second Engineer is a good idea, and i do not, then clearly i am not good enough for the team.

As for Horde being Lore. How can Horde be Lore. It is two sides pitted against each other in senseless violence. There is not, nor was there meant to be Lore in it.
As for Escape. I have never understood its inclusion in to Gears 5. To me, it makes none to little sense.
However, there is a way to save it. And to make it make more sense.

Classes worked in Gears of War 4 Horde, what did not work was having an Engineer on the field and everyone thinking “fork you Engineer, i can build, so i will” This had nothing to do with Classes, it had nothing to do with, simply nothing. What was the point in having an Engineer, when no one respected said Engineer, and just built for the fun of it. I stopped playing Gears of War 4 Horde for this reason. I did not spend months getting my Engineer to my version of perfect, just so some wannabe can just walk in tot he game and decide he is going to be an Engineer when he entered the game as a Sniper.

I would like to see the Classes return, but i want more variety, i want the Classes restricted to what they are Snipers Snipe, Engineers build and repair. Everyone sticks to their chosen Class. Ok, i see no reason why a Scout can ask for a Longshot, but the Skill Cards for the Sniper need to be for Sniping for the Sniper, making it pointless for anyone else wanting a Sniper if there is a Sniper on the field. Of course it will not stop said Scout using a Sniper, variety is available, but Scout will not get any benefits for it.
Soldiers, if the make a return to Gears 5 Classes are experienced Lancer users, Skill Cards for Lancers, however, the Lancer GL is a command staff weapon, so only commanders can have acces to it. But… And this is a big but, if lets say i as an Engineer ask for a Lancer GL, i can use it. Again no Skill Cards, because they are for the Soldier.
I hope you all get my meaning. You can use any weapon you want, but they are still restricted to assigned Classes, Skill Cards only for said Classes too.

It would be nice to have different Classes too. Scout might need a re-think, to be honest, i think the Scout has had its day, no one uses it anymore as a Scout.
Sniper, Engineer, Heavy, Tank, Soldier, Medic and depending upon the use of it, Scout.
It is time to get rid of the Forge and Taps too. Jack can remain, he will be useful as a Medic, and he still has the Hijack. I would also like to see the end of Energy, or at best, it is automatically put in the Fabricator for the Engineer to use. Only the Engineer can build, that would be nice, and maybe a lock down choice for Fabrications, to stop the idiots moving them around. Bloody idiots !!!

So much can change from now until the Hero system goes, so many possibilities. So many changes, and hopefully for the better.

The Coalition for sure made some really stupid decision for Horde, and for the rest of the game, but what counts is, what they are going to do about it in the future. As far as i am concerned, the future looks exciting. How it plays out, is a different matter.

#32

That’s all Jack has to do.

Rod said Jack was made for casual players and non gamers to join in without being too heavy on them. Like a little brother or your Dad or something.

#33

Where are you pulling that from? Because a soldier who is a lower rank definitely is not “command staff”, whatever that is supposed to mean, yet they also get given a Lancer GL.

And for all intents and purposes the overreliance on an engineer and a power collection/creation workhorse in the form of Jack is a real hindrance to getting a match started when most players will not start without one or the other or both but nobody wants to be an engineer or get bored to death playing Jack to only serve the team and nothing else.

#34

Jack has a variety of things to do. I have been in games where i have been asked not to build a Forge, because the jack has gone off and Hijacked and Healed. It is stereotypical to think all Jack can do is fetch and Carry… No wonder people get bored of playing Jack, if that is all people expect of him.
When i play Jack, which i dislike i might add, i rarely use the Forge, i use jack as an Energy collector and picking up folks off the floor.

#35

There’s 4 other players on the team. Why can’t they collect energy?

#36

That is surely a load of Crepe. There are no end of games i join wanting to play as the Engineer, only to find there is already one in the game. Or i have been playing as the Engineer, and a second one turns up.
Not sure what game you are playing, but Engineers are far more popular than i would like to care about.

As for the Lancer GL, it makes sense to have the one in charge using it. Or you would end up everyone using it. The game would be one constant earthquake, explosion going off here there and everywhere.
There is a reason why JD is the only one using it.

Jack, is boring, yes, but that is all he does anyway. He serves the team.

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#37

Your beliefs and experiences do not match mine then. I often end up waiting for an engineer and/or Jack to join as last or the Jack/engineer leave the pre-match lobby before there is 5 players in it and then you end up waiting for another one for ages.

The only thing I will give you is that it is more frequent nobody wants to bother with the pain in the backside that is Jack in Horde.

And you realize Horde is not canon. JD only uses it there because his role is built around it. In the Campaign the Lancer GL is used by many. Including Kait and Del.

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#38

I don’t think anyone is saying Horde is cannon, but the desire for character;s ability and load out to be loosely based on lore to allow investment with the character. I know we have gone around saying xyz is generic and xyz we know nothing about, but for most part it can kinda work as detailed before. It’s poorly implemented.

#39

Yeah, the Canon thing is been mentioned before. But my point is, if everyone has the Lancer GL, well put it this way, most do not want JD in a game because of his Lancer GL. Two or more is not going to go down well with some. JD is a leader, Lieutenant if i remember rightly, so yeah, i do think my reasoning is a good one.

My experiences are different to yours it seems, i really do get sick and tired of second Engineers enter my games. Unless i am playing with my Forum buddies, i play on my own. Less frustrating.
And, Jack, what a pain he is. I build a Forge and a couple of Waves later he is gone. Wasted Energy, wasted time. I really cannot explain to you how much i dread or dislike a Jack in my games.

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#40

In my experience A TON of Jack’s will troll a match. I usually start kicking them due to lack of trust. You can get a sense of what they are like after a while.