Should Lizzie Carmine's death be retconned?

Yes. The giant Alaskan Bull Worm from spongebob shows up and eats the cars that turn left slower than the other cars

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Been thinking on this - Tai served to show the brutality of the Locust(under Skorge? not sure on that one). Prescott served a greater role in the Locust War which was explained or detailed prior to Gears 3, from what I know. Minh was basically there to serve as an example of what happens if RAAM catches you out and off guard(other than “I’ve got the code for the door”). So I hardly can find much to deplore about their deaths, assuming I used the correct word for that. And I was glad not having to wait over a minute for Minh’s AI to blunder around before it opened that bloody door any longer. Though it was great to see that he wasn’t just an emotionless husk carrying out orders when RAAM killed Valera.

Anthony… well, served no purpose from what I can tell. He just stands there and gets killed. Stay in cover, I guess? Either way there was no real reason to care about him or his fate much.

But Lizzie? She mainly served to show JD was a reckless idiot, something we were already aware of. She could’ve been replaced by any other character JD knew well there(except for Kait, given her role in the story later on, and Fahz since nobody would really have cared that much if he died, and they weren’t just going to kill Marcus or Cole, right?). They just killed her there because it suited their twisted “Carmines have to die” thing. Why do we need them to die off all the time when there’s already plenty of nameless Gears who just die and aren’t cared for much? Not to mention giving the character exposition(even if just in one scene) and showing at the very least one of the main characters significantly affected by the death, both emotionally and in his way of thinking, is far from “dying like nothing”. Kind of seems to defeat the purpose of the “trope” or whatever it’s called from my view. Personally, they could even have killed Del there instead of Lizzie and it would’ve been to the same effect. At least as far as JD is concerned, don’t know if it’d have any variations on Kait’s story then since there’s no Del around. An idea I’ve had was her buddying up with Lizzie(just a friendship, alright?), but that’ll never happen, so…

She deserved a better death at the very least. I’d rather have seen her take down a whole bunch of Swarm and allow JD and/or the rest of his squad to get out as he committed to a reckless, risky attack against the Swarm that was unlikely to succeed and ended up going wrong, so she basically gives her own life to get everyone else out, if they really had to kill her(they didn’t). Sure would’ve fit better with how she was introduced. Or they could have left it open if she ended up getting away from there or not. But don’t make people care for a character when the only point in their existence is dying without serving an important purpose to the story like Prescott or Adam.

Re the Hivebusters, people have theorized a potential DLC in the works based on some “leaks” in a video about the accessibility stuff in Gears 5, but I’ve been skeptical(is there two spellings for this word? the forums seem to think writing it with e instead of k is wrong) about it, will only take it for granted once there’s written or more clear, actual proof. Either way we’ll likely see more for them since they’re all still alive.

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I see you have recovered and back to wall of text and repeating the same things about Lizzie.

Here my take on it.

Lizzie served to show that even a female Carmine family member can’t outrun the family curse.

About recklessness, Lizzie was kinda reckless in her own way too, like that Frag tag on Snatcher. And saying JD got her killed… well, Lizzie could have blown up several DeeBees that were just deployed from that crashed Minotaur. Who knows if her recklessness could get someone killed too. If Campaign had MP tuning for Frag blast radius, she’d be dead already and have killed herself in Frag tag explosion.

This is not serious but what if crashing the Snatcher gave plot armour but the Frag tag explosion was tanked then no more plot armour protection. She could have survived the Hammer but no plot armour like JD had. :thinking:

Crashing the Minotaur into Snatcher. That could have led to broken helmet. She survived twice!

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She could also just have watched it take a civilian and wander off with the person. Is that a good alternative? DBs wouldn’t have arrived quickly enough to do something about it, even though she thought of calling reinforcements in at first but then rams it. And realism seems to have gone out the window in favor of “looking cool” there for that scene.

And that one thing is minor compared to JD running straight into a rocket silo full of Swarm with the added pressure of the rocket launch sequence and potentially exploding if the doors at the top still hadn’t opened, despite advice from Baird to just get out of there because it just wasn’t worth the risk which Marcus, the more experienced soldier, wanted to follow. Or running right towards three Swarmaks accompanied by multiple Drones and Boomshot Scions while acting as a Hammer of Dawn target.

I think Lizzie is naturally reckless based on the little time impression we had.

JD hadn’t been reckless the whole time, like from Gears 4 Act 1 to Gears 5 Act 4.

It also shows that a reckless Carmine could get killed fast.

JD was shown to have some inclinations towards being reckless or not taking certain situations seriously through dialogue in Gears 4, but he didn’t act that way from what I remember. But he was just about as generic as you could get there, so…

I know about that. The same is true for Lizzie based on her actions and dialogue, which you probably know too. So this post is pointless.

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She was very showboaty, especially with that introduction. Taking after Clay–but Gears characters with small arms die faster.

Because JD consciously engaging in reckless AND stupid actions where he’s extremely likely to die when he does not have to while Lizzie rams a Snatcher when she has no other option at hand to stop the Snatcher is so comparable. And we don’t know what the explosive radius of one of those grenades is either, so maybe she wasn’t at risk despite being rather close to it. And apparently grenade tags do loads more damage than one landing next to an enemy’s feet as well…

Delta squad were there. There were DB deployed. They could have shot the Snatcher through the brain, assuming it has one but maybe a small one since they can’t tell the difference between venom bombs and unarmed hivebusters.

Was JD really even that reckless? Everything he did seemed like the right call to me (obviously we dont know the extent exactly of the protesters so I’ll refrain from that),

getting the rocket up was vital to getting the hammer back online (not that the hammer did anything anyways because they just decided to plant beacons on top of the ground, literally a Juvie could just knock one over and there goes the hammer)

using the hammer to kill the swarmaks also seemed like it was necessary because they specifically told Baird not to drop more DeeBees earlier so going on the assumption that some were nearby is kinda stupid to me

It’s also not like Lizzie didnt have time to open the other door, I know the hammer was coming from that way, but there was time before that and when you’re facing two options of death you’re gonna try for the one with the highest chance for survival and going through the other door that wasnt jammed seems like the highest chance of survival to me

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We don’t know if the glass was bulletproof. Would it have even possible to shoot through glass or break through? And it seems weird if she had no weapon near her like in next seat or something.

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I mean either way she didnt attempt to find out, they just made her kinda dumb in that cutscene imo. Yea let’s just watch my impending doom and panic trying to open a jammed door when there were other routes she could have tried

Don’t worry Condors that never run out of gas will swoop in and save her.

Or a King Raven with a winch

In most military vehicles, the glass is bullet-resistant. And I know the US Army Humvees can take like 10 direct shots from an AR before they lose integrity. But Lizzie was also in an enclosed space where firing a gun could do damage to her hearing (And COG tech is stronger than our own as well).

That whole scene is stupid, the trucks in the gears universe have only one door?

Dom’s only had one door.

And one exit…

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Trucks have killed our fan favorite characters more than the swarm have.

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Who have the Swarm killed? Oscar? No—it was kinda Kait’s fault, right?

Reyna? No–technically Kait killed her, or put her down.

JD, Del? No–technically they’re a shrodinger’s death, and Kait got them killed by not aiming for the head.

The only way characters in 4 and 5 have died is by Kait–the Swarm haven’t killed anybody.

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