Ryan Cleven appreciation thread

Click on the links and see the context of most of these. It is something else.

C’mon, man! Thank you, Dutch.

Back to Cleven.

hmmm interesting:

Love the open dialogue that he brings us. He is truly one of a kind.

The game came out the way it did to best accommodate for noobs and just now we are getting corrections. This is why they were seemingly different people with different ideas during the launch period. Now that it has passed, they are actively trying to get it right.

From saying that the aim assist was right in there eyes to now breaking down all the various components of aim assist. Now they even admit that the melee was left OP on purpose to showcase the feature.

Treat the girlfriend bad in public and kiss her feet in private.

It never ends!


But also this:

Okay, last edit I will do since this is endless:

so not even rainbow, really?

Let me put this one again:

so not even rainbow, really?


Prepared to be flamed and labeled a TC shill.

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There is more than just the title to the thread.

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Ryan absolutely sandbagged that guy. Based.


I did read through your text too. There’s a lot more people on this forum willing to flame TC and criticize everything they do than their is people willing to acknowledge when they make good decisions.

The majority of posts will be something along the lines of “they should have just launched better duh” or “give Gears to a better company!1!”. Which I can agree with (not the company part), but I’m happy they’re in the process of making changes.

You have in GOW a “hardcore” fan base of probably several thousand people who want gameplay to center around idiosyncratic, unintuitive gameplay mechanics (e.g., wall bouncing, up-A’s, back-A’s, etc.) that form the basis of a formula they like, but which the average gamer is going to be perplexed and repelled by if they ever try versus. It’s an impossible task to try to make GOW more approachable to the broader audience that’s needed to sustain the series as a AAA franchise without having the “hardcore” fans shriek and try to shout you down whenever something, no matter how minor, gets changed. I don’t envy anyone on the multiplayer design team.


I agree but I just wish they hand’t gone so far with some things. I would love to have this or that, but I understand that there has to be a balance and that what I like personally might not be the best thing.

I just wish we could get to a better middle ground because Gears 5 has just been a mess. I can’t shake the feeling that they simply don’t understand their audience or how to attract a new one.

The fanbase is what’s keeping the franchise alive, and it has been so for the longest time. I’m all for attracting new customers/fans, but not to the detriment of the fans they’ve already gained over the years. To disregard them would be both idiotic and negligent, and that goes for all established franchises.

If the existing fanbase is unable to keep the franchise afloat, to the point where they feel the need to completely go the opposite direction of where their fans want the game to be in, than it’s time to let go and work on a new IP. Or a spin-off of sorts if they really want to stick with their current IP.


It’s because Gears is not and never will be for the average gamer. That’s just how its always going to be.


The millions of launch players who largely only care about the campaign are the reason GOW keeps going as a AAA series. The hardcore versus crowd of maybe 10,000 people at most are not the reason MS continues to fund a major studio to make more GOW games. GOW could drop versus altogether and still have enough casuals who care about the campaign to keep going. The reverse definitely isn’t true.

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This is a false narrative. GOW1 and GOW2 both sold 5 million copies each. You don’t do those numbers in 2006 and 2008 without appealing to the “average gamer.”


I’m clearly talking about the multiplayer side of things. Of course everyone isn’t gonna be wall bouncing their way through the campaign. That’s a given.

Those ~10k (number pulled out of someone’s a.ss I assume) are what has kept people talking about the franchise over the years and has somewhat kept it in the spotlight. Although there is are a big number of players that only play the campaign as it is one of the better ones when it comes to an online shooter based game, there is still a big chunk of them that play the MP portion of it, whether casually or competitively

Disregarding those fans when putting together the MP of a new Gears game isn’t the smartest thing to do, and Gears5 is the best and most recent example of that.


Gears 5 is very correctable. I’ve seen far worse game states get fixed, so I believe they’ll get it done. This time next year, we’ll all have forgotten about how it launched.


Gears is and has always been a niche game when it comes to the multi.

Far more people play the story or Horde. Since the first game to Gears 5, I’ve had countless friends not want to play the mp cuz it’s not mainstream.

I understand they’d like for all those people to play it, but frankly, Gears is cemented as a game a group of niche fans will enjoy.

There still isnt a game like Gears of War on the market. So I think TC and MS need to understand that Gears can do well and pull the AAA numbers, just that when all is said and done, the vast majority of players left will always be the core fans who hop on.

Alienating them for people who will move on anyway is a bad move.


That is the whole issue. They keep deflecting by saying “you want aim assist turned off? It was the same in Gears 1>4”. It wasn’t though. Gears 1>4 didn’t have this new “adhesion” feature that everyone dislikes.

We are asking for the aim adhesion to be toned down or removed, not for aim assist to be removed as a whole. That’d just be silly.

They know this, and are constantly deflecting by claiming that we’re asking for aim assist and all its sub-features to be removed. When we aren’t saying that at all.

PS: I know they toned down the aim adhesion a bit recently. I’m just stating what people are actually asking for, versus what TC claim they are asking for to avoid the real issue.

PS 2: This response seems rather childish: https://twitter.com/nodezero/status/1190831307762225152?s=20

“Ok, no sweets for you!” :roll_eyes:


I agree with y’all @HUG3_N3WB @S_IK_O_IR_G_E @III_Essence @xValtiel

Like i said, I just wish they could find a better middle ground. It’s true that they have done the same as with gears 4 - noob the game at first for casuals then correct it.

They know it is not the most popular and successful game out there so they try to maximize their profit before opening their ears.

This response tells you everything:

It’s about maximizing the impact to the players over time.


No accident, then. Sounds like they tuned it for the 3 million first and then when they leave, tune it right for everyone else that’ll stay.


“I wish we made games for us. But we don’t, we make them for the players”

Excuse me? What sorta crappy line was that? Are you saying you’re not a gamer? You Know what I like about Blizzard when they made Hearthstone, they said “The game is fun because we made a game that we enjoy and that we find fun.”

If you don’t have passion for the game and aren’t making a game that You would want to play…

Why are you making it?