Point Distribution Discussion (Screenshots from S2 to Masters) People Just Need Practice

I just think that losses shouldn’t be able to wipe out every bit of progress you made in the last 4 or more games. You can play for an hour progressing and then lose one game (but still play well) and have that entire hour zapped away.

In my opinion, losses should be able to wipe out no more than the last two games of progress.

Do you really deserve to lose up to 1k points say for a loss if you’re top of your team?

I know everyone suffers from this, but it’s too harsh and I know many people who’ll just stop playing for the day after a demoralising wipe out of their last hour of grinding.

Thoughts?

… I think that for someone to hypothetically win 4 matches and then lose 1 and break even, I immediately think they probably performed slightly above expectation for those 4 games, and massively lost on the 5th… again, assuming 1 loss is wiping out the progress of 4 previous matches… I think an issue many have, including myself until I watched the podcast, is that they only see “I had 24 elims and lost all this xp wtf” but they don’t stop to realize that 75% of that was gained in round 1, and hardly anything was gained in round 2.

BUT, as you said… do I believe it should even be possible to lose that much?.. Probably not, because you’re right. The average guy is gonna’ give the TV the middle finger if that ever happens, and that’s not good for the game. So yea, I’d be perfectly fine with a ‘loss cap’ at a certain point.

Thank you for compiling all of this. I also recognize my boy Elusive Reaper in one of those screenshots.

So I mentioned this on another thread, and so I guess i’ll mention it here; The ranking system seems too volatile.
From what I can see, you essentially dominated every game (besides 1 or 2), thus making it impossible for you to derank in any extreme way.
Me and my friends are going in and out of Silver, Gold, and Onyx within just a few games. Never had this issue in 4. It does seem to be that the system caps you at either Silver or Masters as a general rule

That’s what the podcast said sure, but it doesn’t really track in reality, at least in my experience and from friend’s I’ve played with.

I think the system expects too much from people and doesn’t factor in terrible teammates into the situation.

Hypothetical time again. You play 5 games of TDM. You go 18>26 - 3>6 in each game. So consistent.

In the last game, you have two guys on your team going 2-12. Just running in getting themselves lancered down over and over.

Those two players are draining all your respawns so the possibility of winning is minor and a monumental effort. As you have to try and kill all the enemies before they can slaughter those two guys over and over.

The system just sees “meh, he lost, take these - points” but doesn’t see that these two players destroyed your chances of winning.

So even though you played consistently well in the 5 games, you still got your progress wiped due to the two terrible players on your team.

As the system predicts the outcome prior to the match, and doesn’t factor in what happened in reality, it’s a constant struggle.

I think it should factor in what happened in the match and adjust its expectations of you based on what really happened in the game.

Agree?

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Oh, for sure. God forbid you get a troll that purposely kills himself as fast as possible. The fact that the game wouldn’t even see that is for sure an issue. Randoms can 100% tank your score and chances to win… but on the same note, I think that’s an inherent risk you’re taking when choosing to go in with randoms, and you should be somewhat responsible for the consequences…

Hypothetically I choose to go into matchmaking as a Masters player with another one of my friends, so we’re getting 3 randoms… All are absolutely terrible. The type of guys you mention above. They don’t have a clue. By the end of the match, I’ve lost both rounds in this TDM, and I go… whatever, 8 kills and 3 deaths… So not ‘bad’ but nowhere near what I’m expected to do… In such a case, I 100% believe I should be losing points. Not because I believe someone should be so God they essentially win a 2v5 but because it was my choice to go into that match with hardly anybody… I guess what I really want to get across is, you shouldn’t set the system up where no matter what happens, all you have to do is ‘ok’ compared to the trash on your team and you’ll go up. That’s too easily abused / manipulated and there are plenty of people that would never lose XP, regardless of the match outcome if such a system were put into place… you generally need to lose XP when you lose the match.

I can see your opinion on things being volitile and can 100% understand where you’re coming from, Clown, but I don’t believe fora second that “You’re either Silver, or Masters”. I’ve got plenty of people that are in-between. If someone’s bouncing from Onyx to Silver, that just tells me they’re a player with potential and only need to work on winning more consistently as that seems to be the only thing holding them back because losing match = losing XP.

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Whilst I see your point, I see that as a fatal flaw.

The game shouldn’t be punishing people for its terrible matchmaking system.

This problem is further exacerbated by the fact that it’s so hard to get friends to play this game at the moment.

I feel that personal performance should be all that matters, with winning giving you X bonus points and losing taking away X points.

After all, it’s your personal rank based on your performance.

Their are two solutions I see.

  • have better matchmaking where people aren’t being put into games where they’re a liability (bronze going into masters games for example)
  • stop punishing people for having bad teammates, if they still have a good game, relative to what’s possible for them to achieve with poor teammates.
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Hi man… we should play Tetris Versus man… in there the stats do work = )

See, I like the aspect that there are standards for individual players. My boyfriend (Cobalt Fox in the screenshots) As you can see in nearly all the scoreboards, he’s hella respectable at this game. He even has better up-time stats than myself in nearly all game-types because he plays a really good support role, and his KDR isn’t far from me either… But, there are also plenty of matches that show I’m in a completely different league than he is. He’s rarely getting MVPs like me. He’s rarely pulling down the same amount of kills / score by the end of the match.

If your system were put into place, we’d both be Masters… because his personal performance is amazing and quite consistent, all things considering… but he’s not, because I’m far better than he is, and I personally like that aspect.

All Im gonna say is if your MVP you should not be losing 1200 points for a loss. Its an individual rank not a team rank. I compare it to sports. You can have an amazing player on a sh^tty team. Does that players value go down when they perform and the team loses? Not at all. This system would work fine if you played with the exact same people every game but a lot of us dont.

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that’s why I play horde… every man for himself jajajajaja LOL = )

If I played versus nobody would want me… I’m not good at all at that and I would only downgrade your medals on the game LOL = D

I played a bunch of KOTH last night and was progressing fine. Everything seemed to be working properly.

That’s another interesting quirk that I don’t think any ranking system could truly take into account. If you consider how much of his work presumably leads to you getting so many more kills than he does?

I haven’t played with you, so you’d know best, but I also feel that players who play an extremely valuable support role are also not fairly accounted for.

I don’t play support personally, but I’m glad when there is someone doing it on the team, as it makes things a lot better. Those support players can play a huge role in winning a game as you know.

But they are valued as not contributing as much to the match, when in reality, they had a huge influence on it.

It’s a tough balancing act for sure.

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I just think a player that goes 20-5 every match should be higher placed / recognized compared to someone going 8-2 every match. both have the same ratio, both do quite well with personal performance, but one is clearly more deadly / capable. Change the system however you like, but I think that’s an important thing to maintain.

Got out of Silver only Yesterday.
My stats are not excellent, but I am definitely not a baked potato, and I play like 95% of the time solo.

Plus, the devs said themselves that the ranking system was not working properly before the reboot.
They also said that the reboot took credit of your old tier.
So let me tell you that you are wrong, I am sure there is plenty of players like me stuck in Silver although they were Diamond on G4.

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I don’t understand how any of what you just said translates to me being wrong?..

You say you play 95% of your matches solo. Alright, that means you’re definitely losing a fair bit. It’s how playing with randoms goes.

I’m aware the devs said ranking was wonky before the reboot. That doesn’t pertain to this conversation though.

Reboot taking notes on what I was previously doesn’t affect me when ranking up this time around… I mean I was placed in S2 for no reason on placing this time as the screenshots show. It means I have more of a grind ahead of me, but oh well. It can be done.

And finally… It took me 28 games to go from S2 to Masters, and that’s dominating nearly every match, getting a stupid high score with more MVP than not and having a few reliable teammates every match… You, in comparison, have won 43 games in KOTH with total randoms with a fair share of losses sprinkled between those 43 wins… I don’t get why you’d expect to be placed higher than that?..

This almost goes back to what @o_GH0UL_o was saying. If you feel like losses shouldn’t have as much impact as they currently do so solo players can progress better, which would lead to everyone increasing in rank… that’s fine… that’s an opinion… but yea, you telling me what you just did followed by that rank… doesn’t seem out of place to me.

Yeah… that’s all well and good, but the TOTAL TEAM SKILL is still broken, which is really the foundation of the system, so it’s not possible to have accurate results.

Example: I am one of those people you are referring to that has been stuck in Silver since the beginning. My total skill points are ~7500. Just yesterday, I played with my friend who is a Diamond Master - 19,500 Skill Points - and my other friend who is Gold 3 with about 11,500 points (I believe).
At the end of the match - which we won - it said that our ‘Total Team Skill’ was 88,500.
Now, I’m not a scientist, but if the 3 of us combine for 38,500 Skill Points that would mean that our other two teammates combined for 50,000 skill points. Since the max is 20,000, this is impossible. Furthermore, even partied up with a Masters player, why in the world would I be matched in a lobby with virtually all Diamond Masters players?

So, if your personal ‘Skill Points’ are based on how you are competing based on the points of the other players and whether your team is favored, and those numbers are inaccurate, then your rank point allocation per match will be inherently inaccurate as well.

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I’d have to see it, Lenghty because being totally honest, I’ve never paid too close attention to the team’s total score and then divided it up among my players in the party and my randoms. If it’s off, yea, of course that’s an issue, but I haven’t noticed this because I haven’t paid attention to it.

So, you are ok with the fact you have to rely on a TEAM to get a proper INDIVIDUAL score.
To me, that is acceptable but not on this level.

I am MVP like 80% of the time, 2nd or 3rd something around 10 matches, and I just remember 2-3 times my team was outclassed and outnumbered to the point I was not on top 3 players.

I am not saying I should be Master or even Diamond but I should have gone out of Silver way before than that, if the system was somehow accurate and based on Individual skills like TC is communicating

Gold 3 is much much higher.

Gold 1 starts around 15000 skill points. So you “only” have 5000 skill points for the remaining 10 tiers.

I’ll try to screenshot one when I get on later, but kind of hard to prove without each players’ skill points showing, but should get the gist…

Check it out though next time you’re partied up. If you’re Masters, then you’re probably in the 19K+ range for points - ask your team how many points they have and see if it’s relative to the Total Team Skill.

In my experience, this stat is terribly inaccurate the several times I’ve checked.

EDIT: oops, sorry - meant to reply to @Fragmented_Wolf