Point Distribution Discussion (Screenshots from S2 to Masters) People Just Need Practice

“I can’t get out of Silver! / Gold! The ranks are broken! TC, how could you ever allow for such a garbage ranking system! I should be ranked much higher!”

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve heard this to the point where I throw up a little in my mouth every time I read it. This popular narrative which is solely pushed by players with lackluster stats is completely out of control and I wanted to add a bit of data to the discussion versus people’s random stories with no evidence, or screenshots of scoreboards showing a loss in points when, for all we know, they performed below their expectation.

First thing’s first. TC recently did an hour long podcast discussing rank, point distribution, and how it all works. You can check it out here if you haven’t seen it… it’s quite informative and I encourage people watch before developing an opinion… the TLDR though is that every player has a skill rating, and they’re expected to pull a certain amount of weight based on that skill rating. If you perform above the expectation, you’ll gain a nice amount of pts, and if you play below expectation, you’re going down… This happens on a per round basis meaning you dropping the ball especially hard one round can undo your work on a previous round.

Despite what Bronze / Silver players tell you This is not random. If it were random, we’d be seeing good players legitimately trapped in lower tiers while rocking decent stats according to Gears5.com… But out of all the stat cards I’ve requested, not one player claiming foul due to the system can back up their claim with decent stats. You’ll never see a guy with amazing stats across every category that’s trapped in Silver, Bronze, Gold, etc. It just doesn’t happen… And please, before you post your disagreeing opinion on this, go check out your own stats yourself and see… Do you have great stats? Should you really be ranked higher based on the numbers?.. Or is that just how you feel? I’m going to guess it’s the latter.

The one thing that seems weird to me is the placements… I placed in Silver 2 this time around despite rocking amazing stats and placing Masters in this playlist twice already previously. Whatever. We’ll get there. Here are all matches in orderwith scoreboards and point distribution screens. I won most, I lost some.

(Click image below to see full album)

28 games, rarely lost points except on a few occasions, and nearly all had justifiable reasons as outlined… Guys, this ranking system is fine… Could minor tweaks improve it? Sure. Nothing is perfect… But these posts talking about losing massive amounts of XP for “No Reason” need to end… If you want to bring a legitimate argument to the table by uploading your stat card in the game-mode you have a problem with then by all means, go ahead and lets talk about it. I’m not saying the system is perfect. I’m saying it’s good enough for players to progress if they’re decent. I’ve gone to Masters 9 times now. I’ve watched decent members in my party progress while playing with me… The ranking system isn’t the reason you’re in Bronze, Silver, Gold. The reason is more than likely you.

Tips / Advice:

  • For all that is holy PLEASE look at your stats by heading over to Gears5.com… This shows you categories you’re lacking in and can open your eyes as to what needs to change when it comes to your play. You think I knew my up-time was so garbage in execution I was only among the top 45% of the community? No, I didn’t… then I saw that, started valuing my life a bit more, and my performance improved. Things like that. (That’s true, btw. I generally dislike Execution)

  • If you’re struggling to progress, matchmake with a party. This is a team-based game where communication is key. If you can’t be bothered to party up, don’t cry when you’re punished for it.

  • Don’t immediately become frustrated! It’s easy to see negative points when your team won a round and instantly throw your hands in the air… Try to recall why it happened. Did you not get many kills in that round? Did you suddenly die a lot compared to the first? Were you ignoring the objective? Etc… There’s nothing glaringly wrong with this current implementation of point distribution. If you recognize your faults, you can improve versus just getting mad and changing nothing. It’s easy to see your entire match at the end-screen, but try to remember the rounds, and most likely, you lagged a bit behind where you lost points.

That’s it, guys. Sorry for some if they didn’t want to read a wall of text, but this crap is grinding my gears lately. This community has far too many people making outrageous claims when they don’t fully know what they’re talking about… Again, if you think you’re some crazy anomaly and you should be placed in Masters but you’re stuck in Gold, please, by all means, post your stats and lets discuss… but no more people with horrid stats crying broken system, please. No more claiming ranking up is impossible. No more claiming Master players only rank up from playing a million hours. No more saying it’s random (I guess the odd glitch could happen here and there, but come on >.>)

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Dude, lost a 1100 points in a match where we our combined ratings were 10,000 below the other team, and we had a quitter in the middle of the first round…

Apparently my performance in a 4v5 objective game mode (koth) didn’t measure up to the system’s expectations, based on long term historical trends.

Yes, I watched that post cast. You know what? I work with probability theory every day, what they are doing is fake math, it’s not probability or statistics, they are making things up, and calling it stats.

I hear this a lot from Masters players, “geeze, I made it to Master, just git gud, kid.”

While I’m happy for you, the point of a ranking system isn’t to cater to only the top 2%, it’s supposed to be fair and accurate across the board. These HUGE swings in points (1100 up one match, 1200 down the next match) are ridiculous. Sure, those who kill everyone and kick ■■■ in every game will go to the top, fair enough.

The system is crap at measuring and estimating the performance of us in the middle, especially when playing with randoms… How the hell can I expect my “performance” to be good when I’m constantly dying 1v3 at next?! Because my team mates don’t rotate… And then I find out we were favored?

Yeah, sure, I’m wrong, it works great… That’s why for every post like yours there are about 100 screaming about something stupid they saw the system generate.

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A point you bring up that I completely agree needs adjusting is what happens when someone quits on either team… if it happens for me, I’m simply screwed and losing points, and if it happens to other team, now I’m scrambling to get the kills / points I need in order to maintain my expectation. That I do think needs something… a buff to all, actually. Less losses for players that’s light a member, and lowered expectations for team that’s up a member.

Those are not huge swings in the lower brackets… You’re moving up and down hundreds or even thousands of players with every win and loss. As you climb, the numbers get smaller and smaller, to the point where you’re happy with gaining 30 pts per match… If you made the ‘swings’ smaller, you’d only be increasing your grind time to get out of lower tiers. The pts don’t really matter. I could de-rank out of Masters in roughly the same amount of losses as de-ranking out of Onyx.

I do think it’s fair… As the post states, I’m more than open to seeing players stat cards that show impressive numbers while simultaneously being trapped in lower levels… But I’ve literally not seen that a single time. Show me it isn’t fair…

Yea, there are definitely a fair number of bad or even average players that think they’re good but actually aren’t… That’s not proof of anything. Again, decent players should have decent stats, so why do they never possess them? (In my personal experiences, anyways)

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I agree with you somewhat, but disagree on others. I got masters on two accounts prior to the reset, haven’t played as much since. But alas.

I think it’s easy for the top tier to brush off the issues when they don’t affect them. Also your version of decent stats is going to be skewed.

From reading your posts, you seem to believe that everyone should either be in silver or masters. It’s the in-between that is the issue.

How can the system be fair, when you gain say 600 points in 4 games, then lose 1200 the next one after? Those aren’t even for MVP to being bottom of the board. I’ve been in such situations myself with comparable performance over the 5 games. The loss bias is too strong.

The system still has issues and it seems like it no longer factors in quitters, when it did prior to the reset.

I’m not saying that everyone who is complaining is right. I’m just saying the silver > onyx tier range is the most affected.

I’ve had friends with stats of a solid gold player who couldn’t get out of silver and ended up in bronze.

There are also huge issues for bronze players. The aforementioned friend who got demoted to bronze for instance…

He could MVP with a 2.0 k/d and get 60 points. He never got over 60 points for a good game, in BRONZE. But lose and he lost hundreds. Bronze players are also consistently thrown into games that are way above their skill level, and the system doesn’t point score them based on that fact either.

It’s as if the system treats bronze like it’s diamond. Ask any player who got demoted to bronze from silver and I’m sure you’ll hear the same story.

Those are my 2 cents after playing with people of a wide berth of skill ranges.

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What? No, I don’t believe that at all. I think (And know) There are thousands of people that have reached their limit and capped out in all tiers and I’d be willing to bet the guys that are stuck in onyx have better stats than the guys stuck in gold, etc, etc. I mean doesn’t that affirm that rank tiers are being represented accordingly? For someone to argue no, they aren’t, it seems like they’d need to believe that all Gold / onyx / whatever tiers have more or less ‘samey’ stats and it’s simply a crapshoot of where they land. I don’t believe that. I believe there’s a decent separation.

I’ve never understood this argument. The game does punish you severely for losing, it’s true, but how does this translate to being unfair when everyone has to put up with the exact same system? In all my 28 matches, I had 7 games where I won the match but may have lost a round or 2 and out of the 28 matches, I outright lose 1 game… A diamond player may possibly have slightly worse stats… maybe he won but lost a round or two 10 times, and outright loses 3. An onyx player, slightly worse than that.

if the argument is “Losses count for too much” I suppose that’s a fine opinion… It does mean that if alterations come to ‘fix’ that, the direct result is going to be literally everyone moving up in rank because it’s going to be easier. Again, if you think that’s what should happen, I don’t have an issue with that. I’m simply pointing out that this current system does “work” as there is undoubtedly separation / people maxed out in their respective tiers. Diamond probably lose less than Onyx. Onyx probably loses less than Gold, etc.

My point was just losses are too harsh yeah. Unfair in general.

I don’t believe your rank has any bearing on how much you’ll win or lose. If you’re in a stack of fellow players of the same high tier? Sure, you’ll win a lot.

But put a diamond player in with two guys in bronze going 2-12 and those two players will singlehandedly lose you the match by draining your respawns.

That’s the other side of the coin. Who is the true master rank player? The guy who plays solo? The guy who plays with silvers? The guy who plays with fellow masters?

The latter has the easiest climb for sure. Teammates play a large role in winning and losing. People who don’t have the luxury of stacks are going to find it harder to win, and conversely, their rank is going to suffer as a result, despite that player being just as good as the guys who only play as a stack.

That’s my main point.

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Well I agree with you 100% there, but unfortunately, that’s just inevitable, with any game… I do run in solo once in a while, and I do lose my a** because of the randoms you’re talking about. Again, that’s just the nature of the beast / any game that revolves around teams.

So you want losses to count for less which would allow for more solo players to progress? Alright, that’s a valid view.

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I just think that losses shouldn’t be able to wipe out every bit of progress you made in the last 4 or more games. You can play for an hour progressing and then lose one game (but still play well) and have that entire hour zapped away.

In my opinion, losses should be able to wipe out no more than the last two games of progress.

Do you really deserve to lose up to 1k points say for a loss if you’re top of your team?

I know everyone suffers from this, but it’s too harsh and I know many people who’ll just stop playing for the day after a demoralising wipe out of their last hour of grinding.

Thoughts?

… I think that for someone to hypothetically win 4 matches and then lose 1 and break even, I immediately think they probably performed slightly above expectation for those 4 games, and massively lost on the 5th… again, assuming 1 loss is wiping out the progress of 4 previous matches… I think an issue many have, including myself until I watched the podcast, is that they only see “I had 24 elims and lost all this xp wtf” but they don’t stop to realize that 75% of that was gained in round 1, and hardly anything was gained in round 2.

BUT, as you said… do I believe it should even be possible to lose that much?.. Probably not, because you’re right. The average guy is gonna’ give the TV the middle finger if that ever happens, and that’s not good for the game. So yea, I’d be perfectly fine with a ‘loss cap’ at a certain point.

Thank you for compiling all of this. I also recognize my boy Elusive Reaper in one of those screenshots.

So I mentioned this on another thread, and so I guess i’ll mention it here; The ranking system seems too volatile.
From what I can see, you essentially dominated every game (besides 1 or 2), thus making it impossible for you to derank in any extreme way.
Me and my friends are going in and out of Silver, Gold, and Onyx within just a few games. Never had this issue in 4. It does seem to be that the system caps you at either Silver or Masters as a general rule

That’s what the podcast said sure, but it doesn’t really track in reality, at least in my experience and from friend’s I’ve played with.

I think the system expects too much from people and doesn’t factor in terrible teammates into the situation.

Hypothetical time again. You play 5 games of TDM. You go 18>26 - 3>6 in each game. So consistent.

In the last game, you have two guys on your team going 2-12. Just running in getting themselves lancered down over and over.

Those two players are draining all your respawns so the possibility of winning is minor and a monumental effort. As you have to try and kill all the enemies before they can slaughter those two guys over and over.

The system just sees “meh, he lost, take these - points” but doesn’t see that these two players destroyed your chances of winning.

So even though you played consistently well in the 5 games, you still got your progress wiped due to the two terrible players on your team.

As the system predicts the outcome prior to the match, and doesn’t factor in what happened in reality, it’s a constant struggle.

I think it should factor in what happened in the match and adjust its expectations of you based on what really happened in the game.

Agree?

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Oh, for sure. God forbid you get a troll that purposely kills himself as fast as possible. The fact that the game wouldn’t even see that is for sure an issue. Randoms can 100% tank your score and chances to win… but on the same note, I think that’s an inherent risk you’re taking when choosing to go in with randoms, and you should be somewhat responsible for the consequences…

Hypothetically I choose to go into matchmaking as a Masters player with another one of my friends, so we’re getting 3 randoms… All are absolutely terrible. The type of guys you mention above. They don’t have a clue. By the end of the match, I’ve lost both rounds in this TDM, and I go… whatever, 8 kills and 3 deaths… So not ‘bad’ but nowhere near what I’m expected to do… In such a case, I 100% believe I should be losing points. Not because I believe someone should be so God they essentially win a 2v5 but because it was my choice to go into that match with hardly anybody… I guess what I really want to get across is, you shouldn’t set the system up where no matter what happens, all you have to do is ‘ok’ compared to the trash on your team and you’ll go up. That’s too easily abused / manipulated and there are plenty of people that would never lose XP, regardless of the match outcome if such a system were put into place… you generally need to lose XP when you lose the match.

I can see your opinion on things being volitile and can 100% understand where you’re coming from, Clown, but I don’t believe fora second that “You’re either Silver, or Masters”. I’ve got plenty of people that are in-between. If someone’s bouncing from Onyx to Silver, that just tells me they’re a player with potential and only need to work on winning more consistently as that seems to be the only thing holding them back because losing match = losing XP.

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Whilst I see your point, I see that as a fatal flaw.

The game shouldn’t be punishing people for its terrible matchmaking system.

This problem is further exacerbated by the fact that it’s so hard to get friends to play this game at the moment.

I feel that personal performance should be all that matters, with winning giving you X bonus points and losing taking away X points.

After all, it’s your personal rank based on your performance.

Their are two solutions I see.

  • have better matchmaking where people aren’t being put into games where they’re a liability (bronze going into masters games for example)
  • stop punishing people for having bad teammates, if they still have a good game, relative to what’s possible for them to achieve with poor teammates.
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Hi man… we should play Tetris Versus man… in there the stats do work = )

See, I like the aspect that there are standards for individual players. My boyfriend (Cobalt Fox in the screenshots) As you can see in nearly all the scoreboards, he’s hella respectable at this game. He even has better up-time stats than myself in nearly all game-types because he plays a really good support role, and his KDR isn’t far from me either… But, there are also plenty of matches that show I’m in a completely different league than he is. He’s rarely getting MVPs like me. He’s rarely pulling down the same amount of kills / score by the end of the match.

If your system were put into place, we’d both be Masters… because his personal performance is amazing and quite consistent, all things considering… but he’s not, because I’m far better than he is, and I personally like that aspect.

All Im gonna say is if your MVP you should not be losing 1200 points for a loss. Its an individual rank not a team rank. I compare it to sports. You can have an amazing player on a sh^tty team. Does that players value go down when they perform and the team loses? Not at all. This system would work fine if you played with the exact same people every game but a lot of us dont.

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that’s why I play horde… every man for himself jajajajaja LOL = )

If I played versus nobody would want me… I’m not good at all at that and I would only downgrade your medals on the game LOL = D

I played a bunch of KOTH last night and was progressing fine. Everything seemed to be working properly.

That’s another interesting quirk that I don’t think any ranking system could truly take into account. If you consider how much of his work presumably leads to you getting so many more kills than he does?

I haven’t played with you, so you’d know best, but I also feel that players who play an extremely valuable support role are also not fairly accounted for.

I don’t play support personally, but I’m glad when there is someone doing it on the team, as it makes things a lot better. Those support players can play a huge role in winning a game as you know.

But they are valued as not contributing as much to the match, when in reality, they had a huge influence on it.

It’s a tough balancing act for sure.

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I just think a player that goes 20-5 every match should be higher placed / recognized compared to someone going 8-2 every match. both have the same ratio, both do quite well with personal performance, but one is clearly more deadly / capable. Change the system however you like, but I think that’s an important thing to maintain.