Please Give Fahz or future Snipers a Bleed Card in Horde

After playing the inconceivable and master horde settings, as someone previously stated Fahz can sure eat up the ammo. I think giving him a bleed card in the future would really help the sniper class in new horde. Kait can wreck waves with hers even on higher difficulties. Would really help on harder settings.


I think a lot of things need to be tweaked. What works at beginner and intermediate tends to be impossible to pull off at higher difficulties.

Bleed doesn’t sound like a bad idea for Fahz. He does feel a little lack luster compared to Kaits +shotgun on bleed and JDs razor hail on explosives.


Fahz can rotate the Embar and Longshot with one weapon locker slot if you combine it with his Ambush skill and target the back it helps alleviate the ammo consumption issue, It’s less an issue with Fahz and more an issue with scaling plus enemies regen quick that it makes Fahz questionable by default, but considering how strong bleed actually is giving it a fully ranged character like Fahz capable of doing 9k damage across the entire map DOES NOT seem like a good solution that is balanced. The sniper in Gears 4 was borderline overpowered after all if you were a good enough shot and repeating the issues of the past isn’t ideal for solutions.
Markza at level one using JDs small number would bleed for 3 ticks of 180 on a single headshot (without Ambush, active or X-Ray) for a total of 1440 damage that can be all the way across the map, JD nor Kait doesn’t have that kind of potential by any means. Kait’s shotgun bleed is at least close range making it a risk vs reward play style and JD is limited by ammo constraints and the explosives can be temperamental for some to aim and can’t just balance things around the ‘good’ players that have no issues since they’re going to be successful regardless.

All this doesn’t take into account X-Ray which with even the weakest version of bleed in the game would be able to one shot anything through a wall.

My proposition for a skill that would help is instead of active effects being increased like all the other customs have the cooldown on active reload be reduced per skill card. More actives = more damage, actives still won’t kill the big ticket enemies in a single shot on the harder difficulties, but you at least get pretty darn close on all the fodder type enemies (up until their mods kick in for increased health)


and the fact that it can take 3 embar headshots to kill 1 drone doesn’t really help the ammo situation


While they are it , they should sell us an AMMO CARD so ammo can replenish itself without taking ammo boxes, I mean its completely ridiculous the game as it is .

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Not so much worried about killing everything in one shot, but I think the bleed would help in the wave on the hardest settings. As stated 3 embars to kill a regen drone is alittle much. I play in a group and we rotate lockers and guns, but I think the sniper needs some help. I like playing as him. Those bleed cards just seem to melt em even on insane for kait.

Sniper was insane in 4. Needs some help in 5 to become part of the team again. I mean it’s pretty much, kait, del, HD and a jack on the hard settings. The other doesnt really seem to matter.

The active card isnt a bad idea either. I hit them and nail a dude and just think common man that’s as good as it gets.

The game can’t just be scaled for difficulty modes most players won’t ever even play and currently nothing is really scaled for them except the Tri-shot and some shenanigans with JD to kill bosses with no effort at all. There’s a reason why there are so many rooms requiring Del and Jack because Del brings the fortification and Jack is a power farming revive slave everything else can take care of itself with enough weapons lockers no matter who you pick.

Liking to do something isn’t reason to ignore balance and make the character you like completely overpowered. Kait’s damage is high, but again she’s risk and reward Fahz isn’t he’s the very definition of low risk and killing everything in one shot would let him explode everything in one shot during X-Ray too so it’s back to overpowered AoE one shot kills and it gets even easier and easier when trickling down which the baseline modes that the vast majority of players play are the ones that the game should actually be balanced around which is why just straight buffing skills or giving blatantly overpowered skills isn’t a solution. Balancing how difficulty scales doesn’t mess with the scaling of the baseline modes like passing out overpowered skills would and fixes the majority of the problems. As for the Embar it still has uses on the harder modes similar to JD’s explosive spam anybody that is downed can be killed at a distance with the Embar before you get setup with heavy weapon spam.

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Just an opinion. Everybodys different

It’s not an opinion, it’s a matter of wanting to willingly induce imbalance and overpowered mechanics into the game just to make your own character overpowered. Wanting blatantly make the character you like overpowered isn’t a solution that should be considered by any rational means. Complete disregard for the effects on lower difficulties when the majority of people are far more likely to play Beginner or Intermediate than Insane, Inconceivable or Master is completely absurd to want to try to balance it for the 2%.

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It’s an opinion man. And I’m sticking to it. I think it would be cool.

Please don’t ever get on the dead by daylight steam discussion. That community is void of all logic and would not appreciate your wisdom. Also the devs are idiots. Constantly screwing over balance because they themselves don’t play their own game past beginner levels.

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Yeah I just noticed on the higher difficulties Fahz needs some help. I do agree most will stick around the medium levels but it’s a fun challenge with friends for the hard ones. It’d be nice to have sniper get some help in there.

Bleed seems a bit too extreme for Fahz.i think if we tried to fix some of the problems in horde it’d make things better for him and other characters in general.

Lower enemy health on higher difficulties. I’m not suggesting it becomes a cakewalk, but surely they can think of a way to make it legitimately hard and not resort to artificial difficulty by completely bloating the HP numbers.

More ammo. Sometimes people fight over the ammo boxes, and some are even wasteful with them, abusing them simply to try to rack up grenade kills without having even used their guns. I dunno what would be a good way of going about this. Maybe all maps can have 3 boxes instead of 2. Maybe the weapons locker can be reworked so that it always has 4 or 5 slots, and upgrading would boost the regen rate, because people can fight over the lockers too.

As for the ammo boxes I don’t understand why we don’t have explosive ammo crates in horde. In single player there’s red ammo crates that only refill explosives. Blue ones only refill bullets. We do need more ammo crates but I think it would help if we also added red crates for the explosive users. Like you said most people are wasteful with the ammo boxes because they want grenades for the lancer gl. If we threw in a red crate and made it so only red gives explosives then we wouldn’t all be fighting over the same box.

I don’t play Dead By Daylight and I’m assuming this is sarcasm, but I’ll go with it anywho. Balancing items for higher difficulties screws over items in lower difficulties if you balance everything for lower difficulties then you can adjust scaling of the higher ones to make it harder without ruining gameplay of the more baseline mode.

Judging by the number of Beginner and Intermediate rooms the vast majority of players play those difficulties and even if you go higher Advanced is the last very frequent difficulty for rooms before they get much scarcer, so balancing something for Insane would clearly be too strong for those lower difficulties especially if you’re trying balance it in a way that isn’t even possible in the lower difficulties. The issue is how difficulty progression works in Horde specifically with the Increased Health and Increased Lethality modifier, the difficulty increases from simply having X number of modifiers tend to be outweighed by those 2 modifiers which ofcourse at least one is required for Inconceivable and both required for Master which ensures that you’re pigeonholed into specific and limited tactics for those mode which are easier to use in lower modes, but not expressly required. With the current scaling if you brought the non-optimal methods of play to be more viable in Inconceivable and Master ignoring what they’d do to the lower modes the few that actually play Inconceivable and Master might be happier, but it’d trivialize certain aspects for modes which they are not scaled for. In this instance giving Fahz even the lowest Bleed in the game is a 60% increase in damage sure it helps keep enemies from regening so anybody playing with the Regen modifier gets a more viable Fahz, but anybody without gets a not insignificant buff to damage making Fahz capable of one shotting pretty much anything and if it was just for Precision Rifles in general he has the Markza which he can somewhat spam again at ANY range, it’s already questionable on Kait especially on lower difficulties to give her bleed at close-mid range depending on which shotgun she’s using but at least she has a risk reward mechanic associated with it and your average playing recklessly charging in with a shotgun is likely to die even on lower difficulties which somewhat serves as a balancing factor at least where the majority is concerned and the minority of players that can effectly use Kait on the harder difficulties are the better players to begin with and are going to have more success regardless of what they use. It’s a matter of the many weighed against the few and if you don’t consider that then you’re going to hurt the game significantly for the many just to have ones’ own wants fulfilled. Same mentality that people who cheat in games have they don’t care about other players they just want to win/be the best so they break that balance by using cheats whether by cheats or trying to push something that forsure will be imbalanced the effect is more or less the same.

It wasn’t sarcasm. I mean your posts tend to be very thought out and reasonable and dead by daylights community is salty as sin. 4/5s of the player basis only play 1 side and they are very bias. They will review bomb the game anytime their side gets a nerf even if the nerf was well deserved and actually makes the whole of the game better. Don’t ever go onto that forum.

I had a question, does anyone have a good build for fahz? Because it just seems like even you are doing well with fahz and do your job and land headshots, it just doesn’t compete with how effective JD is as far as damage. I was in a match with a good team and even though I was doing well, the Person playing JD was doing waaaaaay more damage and kills from GL spam and boomshots. Like how do you compete with that? I felt like I was like a support character lol. The time it takes me to kill someone is a lot longer than when JD nails them with a volley from GL

Reminds me of playing sniper in gears 4 when you had 3 heavys with salvos before magic bullet came out.

Comparing a character to a blatant over powered character is not a reflection on the character falling short being too weak to be useful it’s a testament to how ridiculously overpowered certain characters are. Fortifications have been over-centralized so that an Engineer is basically auto-include. Kait has broken levels of damage and her weapons are strong enough at mid range to just be able to pop out shoot them in center mass and let them bleed to death she also has utility potential in revives with her ultimate and if anything flies into the base she can take it down extremely quickly. JD can spam infinite explosives for massive damage with just 2 cards equip a decent level Launcher Capacity and Razorhail which at level 1 provides 60% more damage in effect since it ticks 3 times for the listed percent and he only needs 2 weapon slots to pull this off on a level 4 weapons locker when you have a high enough Launcher Capacity. Jack can farm enough power to render pretty much anything moot, you can build a base that spans half the map easily with either Engineer. It’s a problem with over-centralizing overpowered characters it’s not a problem with certain characters being to weak to be viable. The solution is to tone down the broken characters so they aren’t over-centralized which is why the attitude a lot of people have that it’s a coop game balance doesn’t matter is a inherently flawed. Fahz is fine, if anybody has a complaint for being too weak it’s Marcus, they could have at least gave him proficiency with a Retro so he can headshot without switching weapons and has a weapon that has a little more beef, but even he is actually fine since on the lower difficulties with Last Stand he can easily deal large amounts of damage and with Living Legend and Retro Lancer he’s still fairly capable higher up, but I’d call him more of a starter character for low difficulty modes and he fills that role well enough. Not all the characters have to be over-powered and if that point were reached there wouldn’t be really any reason to have difficulties at all since any mode would be incredibly easy and honestly every difficulty already has that issue because of the problem characters that deal out of spec damage compared to the more balanced ones. Fahz’s X-ray is rather potent if used properly and contrary to those who just want to cry that he’s vastly underpowered he’s firmly capable even on Master when used well, he however isn’t going to outshine clearly overpowered characters, but anybody not named JD can’t solo every single enemy in the game by just holding down one button either.

In terms of damage Fahz is strong enough and he doesn’t need to stay exposed to deal large burst damage unlike Marcus who doesn’t have damage capabilities unless he can empty large amounts of ammo into enemies. Higher up his Last Stand becomes more or less moot since you’re either healthy or going to go down the very next shot and his passive damage pales in comparison to other characters. He’s not really tanky enough to matter higher up either or use his Extended Magazine card effectively. Unlike the newly released CoG Gear who has comparable issues to Marcus in terms of dealing damage the Gear has utility Marcus doesn’t have terribly much utility to explain off his lack of viable damage dealing.

Bottom line is Fahz is fine. JD, Kait, Jack and Kat/Del are simply over-centralized because they either deal too much damage or have too much utility they’re the issues not Fahz. The only character that truly gets shafted is Marcus and if you curb your expectations there he’s fine as well since he’s a good basic character for the lower difficulties. Until the actual artificial difficulty through sheer number scaling is sorted out and the over-powered characters are brought in line people are always going to seek out the 4 main characters in horde and that shows how a poorly balanced coop mode affects not only perceptions of the non-overcentralized characters as being weak, but shows the flaws in the mode itself when it can be reduced down to a simple formula. The mode clearly won’t be rebalanced to have meaningful difficulty increases rather than just throwing numbers on health and damage creating the illusion of difficulty when really it’s just a cheap way to claim something is harder it’s exactly what Dark Souls did they made a game that is honestly relatively easy, but created a scaling that punishes players for messing up even a single team while drawing out the fight to increase the chance that players will screw up before the fight is over and thus die multiple times until they get a near perfect run at a section. The over-powered characters also won’t get toned down as people would be up in arms after having their exploits jerked away and then they’ll simply claim they’re too weak as well and it’d be the whole Fahz claim all over again, but that doesn’t mean they should add to the flaws either by simply making everything over-powered.

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