I will never quit calling it that.
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Actually I just had my first game where people wholed up in that side tower, that is really like a cave with no escape, didn’t survive wave 5 
Fornicator ? I want one!
I beat it several times in that setup, always with a barrier field downstairs. I just left a match because the engineer was not putting any barriers outside of the staircase box death trap which would have been ultra slow and boring on top of making it needlessly difficult.
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Yeah I think we would have made it, except I ended up with me(Demo which admittedly is not my fav class) and the Engineer alone. Since everyone left as the going got too rough.
Once I was out of ammo there was just no way to lancer them down with regen.(I mean there was no way we would have finished the 2 of us but I would really have liked to beat at least that wave)
Not having lockers early for Jingle Juvies is fine for me btw, as for the most waves it’s fairly pointless to use heavy Artillery . Wave 5 is so so really depends what you get. But generally Torque or Grenades are good enough(for the mentioned classes) Or even 5 Lancers can deal with it.
But Jingle Juvies is a pretty special case.
Yeah !, Engineers are completely useless now! Who wants a Del if you can have Marcus doing it all 
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I mostly play as mechanic / robotics expert nowadays . I’m fine with people not depositing and upgrading their abilities. But I will straight up just instant quit when I see a veteran or any other class that is not an engineer building turrets / upgrading barriers past Lv 2.
That is just not worth my time and effort. If they want to build stuff, let them build. Just leave and start another game.
Edit: On a different perspective, I want to be able assign a locker to a single person. I used to play demolisher / marksman a lot. I ■■■■■■■ stopped playing them because ■■■■■■■ idiots would take away my weapons from lockers all the time. I bought 8 Longshots in a single game past week when playing Marksman. After asking politely a few times in the chat, I just said ■■■■ it and took the locker, carried it to the enemy spawn and watched drones as they destroy it. Didn’t bother with picking ammo for the rest of the game. When ammo dried up I just bought a new one from the fabricator.
I’m normally a pretty chill guy, I do not argue with people in game, but this kind of ■■■■ just flips my switches. I want to be able to lock the lockers, that ■■■■ is more of a pressing issue than the engineer situation.
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…
So this guy thinks everybody should play the game his way because he doesn’t like it…but if it was the other way around he’d be okay with it…
If they don’t like how he wants them to then tough 
as long as he gets his way?
Love how he calls it “my” game too. Like we’re playing with his toys and he makes the rules. I knew someone like that in my neighborhood. No one wanted to play with that kid.
He actually called me toxic in another thread because I said it was gatekeeping. Yet all he’s been doing since that thread is calling people “whingers” and “idiots”. Whatever “whingers” means.
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Sarcasm aside, I think this is a fairly key point in this debate. At present, there is not a single class that is indespensible, which in my view is a good thing. Not even engineers are indespensible as a sub-group. Good enough players will be able to manage without an engineer. It sounds to me like some people are so attached to the engineer role and want to feel valued by all to the point they want the game to be designed around that role.
The thing is, the engineer as a role is still important. But as I said, it’s not essential anymore. Good players can compensate for a lack of engineer, but this is a reflection of their ability and teamwork as opposed to the engineer being redundant. In many ways it’s no different from players doing personal challenges like “No JD master runs”; or “No bleed ability runs” etc. Fact is the game is different from launch. It’s been balanced now and we can all debate whether it’s for the better or not (I think most PVE players will say overall it’s better); plus we have alot more classes to play now; whereas at launch we had what? 10 classes for Horde including the promotional characters, while now we have 19. Plus class/character duplication is [officially] a thing as well. At launch it was easy to choose your team because there was such a limited choice - and certain classes like Fahz hadn’t been buffed and were pretty poor, so naturally the engineer was essential for lack of better choice.
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If I am Jack in that game, I will move the sentry to a location that no one but myself can get to.
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Much nicer than I would have put it friend, but essentially yes 
It also just occurred to me just now, but what on earth did they do before GOW4 if they just can’t get into playing other roles? GOW4 was the first that introduced the engineer class as a concept. Before that you had GOW2 with absolutely no classes and no fortifications; GOW3 with no classes and anyone could build in preset areas; and Judgment which didn’t really involve building (aside from Baird dropping time-limited sentries and fixing barriers which were already there). Possibly a newer fan who came onboard for GOW4? But even so the game is a shooter. I have friends whose favourite role is engineer, but they are willing and capable of filling other roles too.
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I deposit the first round if I see the engineer only build sentry not locker I either build myself or perk.
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I was once of the opinion that open fabricator was a mostly good move, but I’m starting to change. Playing as an engineer and seeing non engineer classes build mg sentries is getting old. When I play engineer I don’t mind very much if people don’t deposit, even though they generally do when I build lockers, it’s just that when they build sentries they not only waste money and build less effective forts, they also don’t perk and will be unable to fill their expected role in the match. I’m mostly with you now, if people want sentries they should be required to play engineer. Ammo lockers on the other hand should still be free to build to get around a potential moron engineer in the team. Possibly also have lv 1 barriers open. And give us lockable lockers for god’s sake.
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Good move on Tc on freeing up the fab but it does comes with some negatives
It is surprising just how many people feel this way. But, it seems not enough for the return of Pre Op 4 Horde.
Biggest mistake The Coalition did for Gears 5 Horde. If people wanted to play Gears 5 with an open Fabricator, all they had to do was play Gears of War 4 Horde. It is still available, init ???
Who knows, maybe someone over at The Coalition will realise this. Maybe.
I can understand the frustration engineers may have, but I still think its beneficial for the other teammates to have a fighting chance when an inexperienced engineer is on the team.
Would it help engineers if fortifications weren’t upgradeable? Like all levels of fortifications would be purchasable from the fabricator and you wouldn’t be able to upgrade them after purchase. Would that help those situations where you place a level 2 barrier and come back to find them level 3 or 4? (Maybe keeping the lockers upgradeable though)
Would it help a little if the player who purchased a sentry didn’t directly get credit for sentry kills? Like the sentry kill points still go towards the team score, but doesn’t encourage players who want ‘mvp’? Hopefully this would encourage non-engineers to earn their kills and not rely on fortifications.
I played a match on canals where we had an engineer who wouldn’t build.
Crap kept coming into our base and making us wipe and restart the wave so I decided to build some barriers to slow the enemies down and the engineer got upset.
The moral of this story is that locking it so that only the engineer can build sounds good until you get a crappy engineer and then you need an out.
Having barriers would’ve helped - if he had learned that he needed to freaking start building instead of going toxic and driving me to quit (which also helped).
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