I have seen a large volume of threads on the map, so I am collating them here.
Ok I was seriously questioning whether or not I should make this post, but I couldn’t let such a great idea go to waste. The map itself is gorgeous and I don’t think its without promise (Icebound went from the bottom now its here lol)
Why does this map play like garbage you ask? Well, let me explain what makes a good map in Gears (some of this holds true for almost any game.
Features of a good map:
- a win condition (a strategy that consistently gives you an edge, think Allfathers when top mid is raised or asylum upstairs)
- a counter to said win condition (anyone remember Overpass? yeah, it didn’t have this lol)
- proper incentive to move around the damn map (this map has like 1 decent power weapon, absurd)
- a good mix of positioning versus skill (shouldn’t just be a lancer fest for example)
- a defining feature or “gimmick” that makes the map stand out typically helps, like the lasers on exhibit or the train on asylum.
What makes Pahanu play poorly is that it has none of those things, which is crazy for a Gears map. Hell, even Overpass had a power position, its crazy that a developer for Gears of War even made this map, I was playing with friends and they thought it belonged in an Alien vs Predator game lol.
So what’s the solution? The sad reality of this map is that its built from the ground up to be mediocre, not just the size (this map should be added to FFA btw) but the lack of any real depth in its design is really bizarre, but all that aside I do believe there are some simple and some difficult changes that could be made to make this map play much better.
- Power Weapons
Maps are almost always defined by weapons on the map itself, everybody remembers trenches mainly because of the Digger/Oneshot, everybody remembers Canals for its snipe v snipe battles, etc. That being said this map has some extremely weak pickups considering its size. Dam has more Power Weapons than this map and its far smaller.
Markza>Sniper (there needs to be a meaningful counter to lancer fire on this map ok? besides, snipe duels fun)
Flashbang>Incendiary/Frags (Flashbangs are practically worthless on a map this size)
- Aesthetic Changes
Pahanu should be a night map, Period. the foliage/swampy areas of the map are meant to give players methods to flank or sneak up on foes, reducing the light makes these elements stronger and more useful. There are multiple areas of this map that are already well lit which would just stand out better in a darker atmosphere (middle of the map, fireplace, that cool lightning bug area, etc) and it would simply reduced visibility at longer ranges making lancer fire less effective (can I hear an Amen?)
I am aware that such a change is drastic, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
- Map Layout Changes
The most obvious change would be to make more power positions on the map, I personally think a more elevated middle (where the lancer GL spawns) is the most straightforward change that could be made, Other changes would require some serious complexity adding more foliage in general across the map (which would undoubtedly hurt performance) or adding little treehouses or something.
Conclusion: Pahanu is a disgrace, not just to Gears, but to every man woman and child that designed and tested it. For the Love of Gears please ask for second/third/fourth opinions on maps before you put them out, there is no way in hell that such a cool looking map (which probably took like 3 times as long as asylum) couldn’t have been made better from the start, just make sure to ask each developer that creates a map for any mode (other than escape) if it has even 3 of the 5 rules I mentioned for good Gears maps, if it doesn’t, they either need to redesign it again or be assigned somewhere else. If you desire to experiment make a great Asymmetrical for goodness sakes.
This is a great analysis of the map. My own first impressions, from overhead view to actual gameplay (koth), it’s a ■■■■■■■ mess.
Good post I like the map, albeit played only 3 times on Hill at present, but you make some good points.
On the time of day thing. I so wish going forward we could change times and weather across all or multiple maps.
Agree with you on this and this is a good breakdown of several of the things that look bad about this map, but you need a few rules relating to the use of and placement of cover.
Cover placement is NO.1 priority and has to be right for the maps to work in gears .Bad or lacking cover = bad map.
Cover must be available to hide from most lines of sight to a given area.
Cover must be placed in a way that eihter allows you to just about make it though fire when sliding/diving well or allows you to effectivly hide from the fire and flank the position.
A large portion of cover also needs to be placed close enough together that you can slide between them to create interesting cqc fights.
Defensive cover should not be placed with an eye to having to use smokes or flash to break it up, alternatives using power weaponsof flanks should always exist (no more lancer towers!).
I am not looking forward to playing this map, I should be excited for a brand new map, but all the feedback so far seems to reinforce my impressions from the video.
Pahanu has a bunch of cover, it doesn’t seem out of line with any other Gears maps imo. That being said your point is valid in general conversation of maps.
But say like training grounds/district, is any of it really useable?
I couldn’t obviously see all of the map from videos, but looking at the map I can’t see any areas that look particualrly cramped or cluttered (and therefore good for cqc and bouncing). I’ll just check it out in private later if I cant find any games on it this evening.
In an genral sense I’d say every single tc map has far too much open space and far too little cover, and none of it is placed in a way that leads to flanks or cqc battles.
oh for tha ability to place classic sandbag cover on tc’s maps and give it the correct amount of useful cover.
I really miss all those useful sandbags everywhere…
That’s an elaborate solution that would require a great deal of thought and testing to have any sort of positive outcome for the map, I do mention that the map itself is flawed and probably needs to be changed, that being said its easier said than done. TC could just as easily make changes that would be a detriment, so its hard to imagine how/where such changes would occur.
Looking back at Icebound in particular it took them months to improve it, and at some point you gotta consider if its better to just make another (far superior) map, like I was considering maybe the map could have an “eruption” event that would essentially block off the perimeter of the map via lava, but that would take months to get right lol.
Drastic changes to the layout should probably be the last thing addressed.
I still can’t say anything about it because after 10 hours of playing Gridiron it hasn’t shown up even once… sigh
Worse than Blood Drive? That’s something.
The main issue with Blood Drive is that the spawn areas is wayyyy too strong so it can become a real campfest, It wasn’t as bad in GOW2 (which is why it was so damn popular) but GOW3 and up it becomes very noticeable. Basically the power positions are on both sides instead of in the middle ironically.
Basically described all my reasons for hating it.
But we all know Drydock is probably the worst map for Versus. Or Aftermath. Or most of Gears 3’s maps honestly.
I just hate Drydock, both in structure and it looks hideous.
I’ve yet to play Pahanu cuz it never shows up in my rotation.
Ok I just played it. All I can say is, it played pretty well on Gridiron. Course I only played it once, so it’s not like I have an informed opinion. No idea how it would play on TDM or KOTH…
Everything played like garbage in 3 because rifles were OP af in that game (yes, even compared to 5 or 4)
I remember having 20 min rounds on RavenDown in GOW3, why I barely play TDM anymore (even exhibit in GOW5 plays like a campfest)
in terms of aesthetics though GOW3 was top tier, like even a map as boring as Gridlock (a map never known for its beauty mind you) was gorgeous and had sick easter eggs and stuff. Most GOW3 maps will play better in 5 than in 3 I suspect.
Pahanu feels like a god damn marathon or i feel like i shrunk to play this map. Its beautiful but tremendously HUGE. Too many open places that you easily can get lancered down.
This map was ONLY design for gridiron…nothing more.
I agree with alll your statements.
Hell id rather HAVE Sandbar over this!!!
Maybe, if some were reworked a bit like Depths having 2 staircases to the center weapon. Or Cove not having north of the center area blocked off. I mean that’s basically an Escalation-type map.
Maps like Aftermath, Artillery, Trenches, Sandbar, etc. can just fuch right off.
I agree with the aesthetics though, Gears 3 is still a gorgeous game.
I’ll say the same for Judgment, the campaign in that had some beautiful sights to see.
Lol not even close to the worst it’s actually good and great atmosphere.
Stop with asking them to re work maps like icebound and other maps. If it’s how they release them then get good at them or just don’t vote or play the map simple as that. Creators can’t cater to everyone that complains about every single thing. Cover up windows in maps and remove railings from the bridge on icebound is example of why they don’t need to do that. They released it like that so that’s how it’s suppose to be. Don’t like it don’t play it
Your post on this map is certainly more constructive than my post on this map…
The cover in the map is so good you can crouch in the weeds and become essentially invisible.
I find that to be a con though more than a pro.