Opinion: Horde is unrewarding for great players

A few months back I remember joining a friends game (this was back in OP2 or OP1 IIRC) the guy was playing on Master difficulty on Icebound, I joined as a level 1 JD and then he politely explained to me why I wasn’t ready for Master yet lol, fast forward to today and you’ll see a stark difference.


“Why are you showing this to me Bluejay?”

Because it sorta explains how easy Horde has become in Gears 5, you can get away with having 2 melee characters on a huge and difficult map like Dam no problem nowadays, this may not seem bad on the surface level; “you can win with any character/class” well yeah, but the problem is that once you max out a Fahz or a Marcus or any of the top tier characters the game offers you (as the player) no real challenge for Horde mode…

What I loved back in the GOW2/3 days (3 less so because of how OP that Silverback was) was that you could never get “too good” or in other words get bored with it, even if you were the best Horde player in the world you could still get destroyed no problem on Hardcore (Insane required cheats basically) on most maps, so the heights you could reach as a player were far higher in that game than they are now, in Gears 5 you are encouraged to play with a handicap on the highest difficulty because the game is so easy that if you don’t you’ll just get bored.

In Summary: having a progression system for skills/abilities is a fun concept, because it rewards you for investing into a certain class/character, but the problem is that once you max out a character’s ability (skill + cards) the game becomes a bit too easy, folks should be challenged even with maxed out characters is all I’m saying :slightly_smiling_face:

Although I would love to bring up possible solutions and the like the truth is that TC are the devs, it is not my job to think up solutions (although I’m a hypocrite and argue/debate this junk constantly :joy:) I’m just a guy that begs and whines and hopes that one day I will be answered, I would like to thank anyone who bothered reading my rant :smirk:

special props to @LeonSandwich and @Sashimi7699, we made the impossible possible :heart:

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I mean, Horde was easy in Gears 4 too.

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The card drops for Horde, even on Master, are definitely unrewarding.

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Good luck getting TC to do anything about that :joy:

They never even bothered doing the patch for those weapon skins…

Good luck getting TC do what about what?

card drops are worthless, because as I have stated you sure as sugar don’t need your cards maxed for Master in the first place, it kinda punishes you because once you “get gud” the game just sorta falls off and becomes a breeze.

Like I haven’t touched Fahz in a while (though I do whip him out for Escape on occasions) because he’s just too strong to use, same with Marcus, if I use Marcus I have to do no Rifle Feedback run or else its too easy.

To do anything outside of Gears 5 at the moment, that’s what.

Edit: Gears Tactics will get some love though, hopefully :thinking:

Don’t be surprised if they eventually add another difficulty to it like they did to Gears 4, even though that was easy after a few runs.

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Isn’t the whole point of maxing out cards etc, is to become powerful.

Then you challenge yourself.

Maybe you should be helping new players out, then there’s the difficulty you want.

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This is true, however what’s the point of maxing out your cards if Master difficulty is so easy that you don’t need them? The progression system should be set so that no matter where you are at with each character/class you can still be provided a challenge, and as I have stated (and shown via pic) it is not like that.

I do, but my point is that I shouldn’t have to handicap myself to have fun with the game. I love using Lahni or Cole or (insert whatever character you feel isn’t “viable” for Masters) as much as the next guy or gal but sometimes I wanna actually whip out my Fahz without feeling guilty.

I have done this on more than a few occasions, as long as someone wants to improve and “get gud” I have no problems with this, I draw a line though when people act all arrogant or that they somehow are gifted individuals that have figured out what I’ve known for months :joy_cat:

You’re in a tiny minority that would want anything harder in horde though.

Which makes no sense for TC to accommodate.

Especially when there’s so many that don’t even play it.

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:thinking:

Gears 5 is an extremely accessible game (worst community though lol) so I’m curious what you mean by this, if your point is that they shouldn’t ever touch things like balancing or characters or whatever, then you’ll have to explain to me what all the changes to PvE since release have been about.

Following your logic, they should just move on to Gears 6 completely then.

Its also a bit bold to assume that everybody will just stay where they’re at now, what I mean to say is that its good to give newer players an idea of long term or difficult goals to accomplish, if you are a newer player and you just got into Gears 5 (hypothetical as most current players are probably long term fans) you should have some sort of incentive to invest tons of time into characters/classes in order to win on higher difficulties, and currently that doesn’t really matter.

These guys added an achievement that required you to get 100k kills in Versus… Don’t see any reason to assume they have no compassion for great PvE players too.

Edit: Gears 4 added higher difficulty mode post launch, also had some really tough achievements on PvE side, so exactly why can TC not do something similiar in Gears 5?

It was a struggle to use Lahni early on, but once I got all the right perks and a mace things went more smoothly, aside from a few flubs on my part (going too far out, thinking I can out smack scions, the dreaded claw and enforcer). Gotta say though it felt nice and very fun using a different class for once and in a master game no less. Also felt great not getting booted from a game just because I was using Lahni in general. I’m still miffed that once we wrapped that game up I got a garbage assortment of cards for my efforts, not a single purple card, nothing but greens and a few blues.

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I would want a new difficulty, to challenge myself, but realistically I’d only play it 2/3 times and then give up with the mode completely. Adding another difficulty might stop people playing at this point as opposed to encourage more players to play.

Plus, if they add a Master +, they would have to tune it for all maps, and potentially hives for Escape. That’s a lot of stuff for TC to go through and re-tune.

If they add a Master +, people will find the most efficient way of beating the mode, which could end up in a scenario where we were back to Pre-op4 where players stick to the meta and dont play if they dont have the meta characters. Then we are back to square 1 again.

One of the main things I liked about the update in Op4 is the gameplay variety. I can play as Lahni or Mac and not be afraid of getting kicked instantly. People are more willing to let people play as what they want for the most part (within reason).

It has meant that Horde is easier, but Horde was boring for me in the end of Op2, beginning of Op3.

I dont think a new difficulty would help as much. It can easily put off players from playing as opposed to help players be challenged more.

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There are a myriad of ways/methods that they could go about increasing difficulty, if all they were to do is say increase damage/health it wouldn’t add much, but there are plenty of options for them to do that would increase difficulty without it ruining certain classes.

Interesting modifiers (everybody spawning with same weapons, invisible melee enemies, double boss waves, etc.)

General balancing (how certain enemies behave and what they can do, like why don’t Grenadier throw actual frags? Dropshot scion headshots instakilling (like it did in GOW4), that sort of thing.

Even some more finely tuned balanced like that health regen modifier is basically meaningless so why not switch it with something else? :thinking:

More enemy variety :pray:

I’m sure there are tons of ways that TC could address this, for the record I’m not a fan of Inconcievable because it was just kinda boring and didn’t really give much more challenge than Insane did, so whatever they do it should be something creative/well thought out and interesting :slight_smile:

Escape is much more challenging than Horde is, although some of them hives need a touchup (The Onslaught is one such example) I don’t think that there is as much reason for them to bother adding extra difficulty to Escape.

I’ve played a few rounds with you and don’t take this the wrong way but I think your point of view is a little skewed because you’re way above average ability at the game. I’m realistic with my own skill and I got most of the maps mastered with randoms but I couldn’t outscore you with a pre nerf JD if you used Fahz (even before Marcus cheat mode). That’s the skill gap between us. Yet the percentage of people that finish masters is still small, even smaller still the people that have done all 22 or so.

I think the only way is to add personal modifiers, kind of like the Gears 3 ones for added difficulty but maybe just for that player and award them more for doing it. Or even the whole team.

Vasgar is the hardest but even if they fix the fab blocking you are looking at a whole new level of difficulty in my opinion, most maps would change drastically when you add that extra lane to defend. I think I’d like to see how it ramps up after that before asking for another level on top of master :slight_smile:

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i have maxed fahz and i dont think its easy.

Keegan and jd keep shooting salvo 24/7 next to u and i can say-------you cant hit any heads in all range

You did this with the base built in the middle of the map, every character running an unorthodox card build, the Jack not smelting and never capping the taps, right?

Ok, maybe I’m not understanding this but what’s so “amazing” about those screenshots? All those characters are more than capable of beating Horde on Master. Y’all have a engineer and a jack, so you can put any three next to them and win, with good players.

I think you’re a good player :slight_smile:

I am fully aware that not everyone is great, however players only become better as time goes on and things become more optimized, 1 year from now tons of folks will catch up, so this gripe I’ve been having with Horde mode will become more common for the general community as everyone levels up their cards and refines their skills…

TC have mentioned a few possibilities that would (in a smaller sense) make Horde a bit more challenging, so I am aware that they are planning certain things (you mentioned lane blocking, one of the things they were discussing on stream) but nobody really knows what direction they’ll take, nor when they’ll take it.

Jack joined second half of the game, so no they didn’t smelt anything :slight_smile:
We had a Paduk the first half but to be completely honest they didn’t make an enormous difference, Jack is a great character and all but honestly was praying for a Lizzie or a Clayton, ah well :man_shrugging:

At wave 11 we got very lucky with a tap spawning on the opposite spawn, we pack all of our stuff up and relocate over there for the remainder of the match. Dam takes an exceptionally long time to set things up, you can go like 20+ waves without having a great base built which is why I consider it one of the most challenging maps in the game.

Its not meant to be “amazing” in the first place, just meant to show how easy Master Horde has become in Gears 5.

Yeah because when it comes to fighting Kestrels/Sentinels Lahni/Cole are clearly the best characters :roll_eyes:
Nevermind that its a huge map with long lines of sight that sorta makes running those characters difficult.

If this is just an ego thing and you want to prove that you can win with a lesser team then go ahead, but that doesn’t do anything to disprove my point :slight_smile:

Jack didn’t really do too much that run (no offense to the person in charge of them) because although it is helpful to have a great medic on your team, would’ve been much much better to have an anti-air class in my opinion. I have another screenshot where we had no Engineer/Jack the whole match if you’d be interested :slight_smile: