Operation 5 - Nerfs and Buffs Overview

From reading the changes for Op5 and tuning thats been done this is what I have taken from the changes that have been made.

Infiltrator - Kait

I think this class got a Buff and small Nerf with Laceration now having a distance required (to be fair most of time you are close with the shotgun anyways but if your not no bleed damage)

Marksman - Fahz

Nerf Ambush Card now at Level 6 is +140% reducing it to 100% is basically going from a Level 6 card to a Level 2 card. Defiantly a Nerf. :-1:

Anchor - Mac

I think he got a decent Buff more cards, more bleed damage, ammo regen perk good for the boltok and extra damage with his ultimate :+1:

Tactician - Keegan

I think Buff more cards, more cooldown time on Recharge Bounty , better Passive and Increased damage for the Shredder card, what i do not get through is they nerfed Shredder last Op and buffed it again this Op, whats up with that?:roll_eyes: (Same with Razor Hail)

Robotics Expert - Baird

Small Buff with having an additional card and again they are making use of having a power tap. Having perks aswell finally!

Blademaster - Lahni

Pretty good Buff few more cards, getting stim, doing more damage is always good, improved Passive and more bleed damage for perk in Horde :+1:

Gunner - Clayton

Definite Nerf Mulcher Mastery going from +120% at Level 6 going to 80% which is a Level 4 card. Cooldown on Heavy Charger might not be able to tell that much but it still a reduction :-1:

Brawler - Cole

I was thinking half Buff half Nerf
The added cards is great but reducing melee damage resistance for a Brawler? Really?:roll_eyes:. More burn damage is good, just Damage perk rather than Assault rifle only is also pretty good as it will include Melee damage.

Pilot - Lizzie

Small Buff another card and more damage with the Enforcer (however i don’t think anyone keeps it)


A long-awaited Buff the extra cards sound exciting might make him more useful in helping to get enemies than just Forging. Passive is better also. Small Nerf for the Optimizer card*
But with the extra card and more usefulness in other aspects its not so bad. :+1:

Mechanic - Del

Small Buff More cards for more damage is good, Having perks also good,

Demolitions - JD

I think he got quite a Buff to be honest. Another card for doing more damage, More bleed damage on Razor Hail . Can mark up to 5 targets just as a new passive if used with Spotter Support / allies mark targets as well and a Tactician/ Keegan around who can mark loads especially with Interrogation equipped or Eagles Eyes so he can mark 5 targets aswell. You can have nearly every enemies marked, use Artillery and every enemy could be took out. Sounds lethal ! and a big Buff considering JD was nerfed last Op I do think he got a Buff this time round. He can carry 8 more grenades so 10 altogether, plant 6, again LETHAL !
Big Buff

Veteran - Marcus

A Nerf I believe. I know his Rifle Feedback was nerfed not too long ago but i think they did it again as i think with them changing it to 100% increase there will be max it can be increased and i think before as long as you kept hitting the enemy the longer you had it for. They have increased the duration a bit but i do not think it will be as good as it was before :-1:

For Emile, Grace, Paduk and Kat’s Classes nothing worth mentioning really.

For the Patch notes.

Increased Fortification cost ? Pretty crap as its high enough as it is i think, maybe they are trying to force people to have a mechanic or robotics expert in their squad for less cost.

Reduced health for Guardian and Sentinal Shields , love it !:+1:

Matriarch changes, Love it👍

Unsure about MORE Sires? Down with more Mulcher Scions saves Clayton buying one if they spawn more. I thought we got enough Dropshot Scions but too many Cyro Scions ?

Proper Confirmation we are defiantly getting Scorcher, unlike the Booshka. Which means maybe in the future we might get more weapons.

DO NOT LIKE that the fab can be destroyed that must have been their way in stopping people blocking paths with it as now it needs to be somewhere safe.

They Nerfed the Power taps even though they Buffed them last Op again whats up with that?

The PVE Challenges sounds interesting. Mutators will we be able to add these as well in Custom lobbies or not?

One thing i will say the decision about no one more Escape Hives i feel that was twisted around to be like the communities decision. Basically saying “ Because you want more maps you cannot get anymore Escape maps” \ its one or the other and you chose more maps for Horde/PvP \ we don’t have enough staff to do both,

Thats what i took from their wording of no more Escape maps.

Okay so thats it,

Respond let me know what you think of what i took from the tuning and everything for Op5 if you agree with some of things i have said or if you reckon some things are not that bad and will be alright come Op5


I’d disagree. The Artillery ultimate factor is limited because you can only drop so many of them and only ever so often.

While the grenade buff is a nice touch, there’s always the ammo factor as JD will be relying on ammo boxes to replenish, or buying them from a Fabricator. His Good Kill card may become useful to an extent.

My overall feeling is that it limits the potential gameplay loops for JD (and Keegan) because his explosive launchers are being nerfed in terms of ammo capacity. I liked how it was before - JD had the advantage of optimised explosive launchers with good capacity; while Keegan had the ammo drop support and grenade capacity element, and had to build up to increased capacity - this made JD and Keegan distinctly different from one another. If they wanted to push a more aggressive grenade-based gameplay loop then a full-on new Grenadier class could have worked.

For me, it’s always about making each character/class distinctly different so they offer different strengths and weakness. These changes seem to make them more similar than I would like.

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I don’t use JD too much but its good to know there won’t be them kind of lobbies all asking for Demolitions class if there is only so many that can be dropped☺️

I would reckon he should have the same ammo everyone else has for the Boomshot and GL just 3 ?

To be fair now i think about it Keegan and JD are a bit similar now with the grenade thing, it might make JD a bit more useful in Escape as well i never knew what to equip him with really.

Ambush card is my favourite :slight_smile: I didn’t completely understand the piercing bullets, I was thinking “well is that not what all bullets do?” maybe Marksman bullets will be like Silver Bullets and shred them or something.

Looking at the changes to Fahz i’d say it’s neither a buff or a nerf…maybe a slight buff with the peircing bullets. The ambush card has taken a hit but he’s still a beast on any difficulty. I haven’t used ambush for a while now. Switched it out in favour of the marksman card to make it easier to get the freezing actives

By peircing bullets i’m assuming they ignore the armour such as the grenadier and warden helmets and probably more affective against guardian shields and dr1s etc

I hope so. I never found Icy Pecision too useful
I haven’t got it levelled up that high but i never really noticed any freeze damage.

In that case you should try it with marksman. Especially useful on carriers and snatchers.

Ill have to give it a go.

I have a feeling the layout of the main menu and customising for characters and everything is going to change and end up looking like Gears 4 with all the character skins to choose from and classes to choose from.

I only realised recently it must have been after an update or something they switched the buttons round for seeing your objectives/medals which was LT and seeing squad and friends playing gears RT. I was pressing LT like why does this keep coming up :joy::joy::rofl:


With Fahz the ambush nerf keeps his dominance down on escape, and gimps his output on later waves of the higher difficluties of horde. In this case it seems Icy precision becomes more predominate, with a level six card albeit. Level six gives each active hit - 34% percent of the requirement to achieve freeze, but this shortens his range considerably. I take the piercing passive to mean that all bullets from precision weapons will pass through enemies to strike those behind them, and so on. An active embar strike is supposed to do this now. So in theory your longshot hit, if timed right, and the enemies are in a moment of single file, can give multiple headshot kills.

I forgot to mention, it works best with the Markza. I have yet to be convinced about the positives of using Icy Precision with the longshot

If thats the case thats pretty good ! :slight_smile:

I normally use the Longshot yeah ill test it with the Markza :thinking::thinking:

If this can be done Marksman class might be the one to go for.

I normally see lobbies these days like;
”Need JD, Engineer, Kait “ things like that.
I bet we will start to see things like;
“Need Demolitions, Infiltrator, Mechanic classes”


Another possibility that people are ignoring is people knowing the spawns, planting 6 nades at spawn, and it essentially becoming a speedrun. I actually think JD/Demolitions may very well become even more common due to that change.

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To an extent. I do think some additional creativity will be need to sustain a full-on speedrun. Maybe alternating the use of other classes - like Marcus/Veteran’s Living Legend to be used one wave, then grenade plants on the next etc.

The main issue is how to get extra grenades. Ammo boxes will only give so much and their spawn timings will be an issue. JD could buy more from the Fabricator I guess - they’re fairly cheap. I guess it would be workable with multiple JD’S/Demolitions now.

It’s very ironic as Michael has said in the past that their dislike of speedruns is that it’s a very inactive gameplay loop, and they didn’t want Horde to be played like that. They wanted all 5 players to be as actively involved as possible.

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Grenade weapons locker exploit, but I wonder if they patched that in the new update. Also frags on master hit for a 1/3 on a drone if planted

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No it doesnt. Keegans Cooperation can replace the missing % or if you’re playing solo you’ll bring Modified Longshot instead of Handling.

You got it in for me pal or what?
I gotta admit. I like it. A worthy adversary.

To the mist hive for example on master diff. It wasn’t until i had the other critical card to level six, in conjunction with ambush at six that i could one shot scions with actives. This is also with the longshot specifc card that boosts damage by 30%. This change will kill that. Thusly, my good man, his dominace is clipped. Keegans cooperation card? This must be new. Tough to keep track reading the change list a time or two. Whats it do?

What are you going on about? Ambush+Exploit at 6 are enough to oneshot Mulcher and Dropshot Scions.

Prove it! No i’m just kidding. You could be right. I bit the bullet and ponied up a couple grand in coins to get the other critical card to six. That little extra bit was enough to get one strike kills with actives on the mist set to master. If i’m not mistaken different hives have different health modifiers and settings for different monsters.

Thats a good point there. Be quite a few people asking for a Demolition.

32% Damage resistance near a tap is the most restrictive BS I’ve seen.

Am I running it over Precision Repairs, Global Overclock, Experimental Weapons, Precision Bleed, and Bloody DR-1?

No. 32% damage on masters is worthless, and the fact that it’s restricted makes it worse. This isn’t a buff.

What they need to do is fix his Melee Resistance card, give him a Headshot card instead.

I mean Lahni literally has a 32% melee damage built into her passive, Baird has a blue card that does this, Cole has a Green Card that’s even HIGHER than this.

Why does he have a melee resistance card that’s a waste of a card?