New tuning review - Skill vs Fun

Let me start by saying that I’m always for increasing the skill gap, so as long as it carries a logical and fun meta throughout the combat in the game.

Some points I want to list here:

  • Why did the reduction of the slide speed go dramatically to below what it was even at launch?

  • The reduced magnetism was something the community asked for, as we no longer wanted to have a disingenuous registration of pellets. TC listened and delivered.

  • The game has moved towards making left triggering more viable and reducing the effectiveness of bouncing and hip firing.

  • Overall, I do feel the tuning has potential but I think it was rolled out too soon. At the moment, I don’t think Gears 5 is enjoyable or more skillful.

TC has said in the dev streams that they are listening to the loud voices, to those who drive by their home and scream in the middle of a silent night. Does that reflect the majority of the community?

This is key because the beta tuning came out and was “limited” to being trialed by a more “hardcore” audience, and this was why TC rolled it out for KOTG to have it be tested by a more “casual” audience.

I believe a more proper and pragmatic path was skipped in order to satisfy those loud calls for the tuning to be implemented across the game.

Good, TC is listening to the community more than ever but I’m not necessarily seeing the perceived general agreements throughout the community. Can’t please everyone, I know.

Now, specific to this tuning.

Has it made the game more skillful and/or fun? I would say no for both of those.

I’m of the opinion of some pro players in saying that the game has been made easier by removing the flinch and the viability of movement and hip firing. Yes, hitting your shots is an essential element of showing skills in video games but the thing is that gears of war is also a third person game with movement between covers.

I have now seen pro players struggle to replicate their dominance over other pro players with this new tuning. At a higher level, hitting shots isn’t the only skill - movement and timing are crucial too.

Is this why there have been calls for this tuning? To make the matches fairer and more balanced? Fairer and more balanced to pro players means more even distribution of tournament earnings. Can’t have a dominant team like Optic in gears 4 and now gotta even it out with the dominant UYU. Gotta try something, no? My point is to say that maybe some players have other ulterior motives. I don’t see the same response from the players who play religiously for fun.

Pushes and multi kills have been nerfed due to the slower bouncing and the overall slower gameplay that this movement brings. Again, it greatly benefits slow gameplay and left triggering.

Viable. That has been the key word for pros and developers.

Yes, before one play was more dominant than another - making one more viable than the other - but now the reverse has happened. Too hot or too cold.

For the average grinder, the player who plays for fun as a hobby.

They seem to prefer faster movement, fluid gameplay and they just want a larger gib range. That’s the bread and butter of the community.

From the What’s up of July 30:

“To be very clear, these changes are going make Gears 5 harder and more demanding on the player. In fact, we’re sure it will initially be quite jarring to the user but, due to the deeply connected nature of weapons and movement, we felt this wholistic tuning approach is the best way to help the game to evolve.”

I don’t feel like the current tuning satisfies the above statement, specifically due to the fact that the weapons are still very strong in a now slower game.

The time to down (TTD) is still very fast and all of this is making for a slower game, that for many of us isn’t fun and/or isn’t all that skillful. Now, I feel like the whole gnasher range (gib, poke) has to be revised entirely again.

I personally enjoy the game more when I can move fluidly, have the perfect combination of left triggers and hip fires, and are allowed more room for outplays by the tuning.

Just sharing some thoughts. I know it isn’t a @Livo type post but just wanted to throw something up and hopefully get some conversation going.

Again, TC is better than ever and I couldn’t be happier that they are listening now.

@TC_Jim @TC_Sera @Surly_McGruff

Note: Anyone can make their points and arguments without talking about one’s ability to adapt or not. I can adapt to playing basketball with a diaper, doesn’t mean I prefer it to a basketball.

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I will share my full comments later… but this is it right here. Nail on the head!

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I feel like I have to reply to this as I was tagged haha.

I’m guessing that you know but Gears 5 launched at 630uu, for some reason it was increased to 650uu. Personally I found both of these to be too fast.

I feel like this all depends on how you view the change to determine if it’s lowered or increased the skill gap. I love wall bouncing, I fully respect and understand the skill behind it, however I feel that at it’s previous speeds it was too easy… Not too easy to bounce, but it was too easy to escape situations when you didn’t deserve to. The A button felt like a Teleport button rather than a slide button.

I feel like the beta tuning felt ideal, it still allowed for some very fluid and decently fast movement but it took some thinking and not just button spamming. I do feel like the tuning we have now in the live game for some reason feels wildly different to the beta tuning and it’s a shame, I also can’t figure out why it feels this way. It’s almost like the movement FEELS slower or is more restricted somehow, perhaps in an attempt to “fix the wraparound” like so many people were wanting, in turn it feels bad. (I’m including that here but I don’t know if it’s movement speed related or not).

I agree, personally I would like to see it gone totally though but this change is very nice and was much needed.

I disagree, I feel like with this slower movement it’s made it more logical to consider shooting whilst bouncing as you’re more likely to get your target in your sights with the extra time you have between walls.

I think the tuning was a year too late! But I also feel like something feels broken within it and it needs ironing out ASAP!

This is something that’s so hit and miss with any community, not just ours. There will always be a silent majority but you can’t assume what they do or don’t like, they decide to remain silent. The people who’re vocal are usually the ones with passion for improvment, for example you making this post. It wouldn’t make the slightest bit of sense for TC or any company to consider somebody who says nothing over somebody who gives solid ideas and presents them with reasons.

If people decide to remain silent then that’s up to them and they can get what they’re given, we’re in 2020 and I don’t know of a single person who doesn’t have internet access. If they care enough about what’s in the game then it’s not hard for them to find their way on to this Forum and spend 20 minutes making a post. Why don’t they? Because they don’t care enough. If they don’t care enough then that’s their choice and tough if they don’t like the outcome of changes.

The people who are loud (i’ll use me as an example to avoid naming people). I am personally SICK of seeing lesser skilled players able to dominate situations that they should have lost. I might be a loud voice but at first it needed to be loud in order to be heard because we used to be ignored. That’s changed now which is good. But consider this, if I didn’t care then I wouldn’t have spent so many hours getting stats / facts, making videos, typing posts, replying to people. I don’t get anything for it, I did it because I wanted to make a positive change. If the things that the loud voices were saying were bad or wrong then there’s no way TC would implement them. We must have valid points.

The loud voices were needed because in it’s previous state, Gears was on it’s path to dying altogether and I believe TC knew it. The loud voices were needed to turn that around and fast.

I’m not sure that I would consider the Flinch as part of a tuning, personally I would say that weapon damages and movement mechanics are what the tuning would be if i’m honest.

I feel like we’re looking at this from the total opposites, I felt like it previously used to have it whereby everyone was pretty much on par with each other, now, good players win and bad players lose.

I disagree here too, pushes and killfeeds are now much easier because the movement isn’t SLOW, it’s SLOWER. With the Lancer damage reduction it’s much easier to close the distance and with the reduced magnetism, when you’re bouncing around between 5 of them, usually they can’t hit you and you can easily come away with a quinn if you’re accurate and focused on moving well enough to avoid their shots.

I agree and surely this must go against everything you just said? Your super casual player is generally in the lesser skilled range, therefore wants things to be easier and prefers less of a skill gap so that they can compete. If they want faster movement then I feel like that says al lot about the slower movement taking skill.

I never thought i’d find myself agreeing with that but yes, it’s very well deserved to compliment them.

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I remind you this is not FORNITE or FALLOFF guys. “Where the casuals keep the game alive”

Hardcore fans of GEARS SAGA is what keep this game alive. We are the ones buying the stuff of the store and pay the ultimate gamepass. So if we asked for a Mechanical & Skill fun tunning is cuz the last thing we want is have a Fornite 2, CoD or Apex on this game

I agree.
The movement is cringy slow

I played a few matches Tuesday and havnt touched the game since.
ITS JUST NOT FUN AT ALL. The game IS NOT FLUID AT ALL. Its unbearable.

BOT WALKING IS NOT FUN.
This game has been in a downward spiral since op.3 slow down was launched.
THAT is when i noticed everyone on my friends list quit playing.
Op.3 slow down was bad enough but this even slower movment. Wtf .I CANT AND WILL NOT PLAY THIS GAME NOW.
I was planning on getting the series x solely for gears 5. But looks like thats out the door. Im not dropping over 500.00 for new console that I won’t be using.

JUST GIVE US A BETA PLAYLIST WITH THE TUNING AND GEARS 4 MOVEMENT.

iT doesnt even have to be released for ranked. I don’t care about ranked when im not having fun playing a game that I love or loved.

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They HAVE to dramatically reduce gib range at this point. Without that, the changes they’re making don’t fit into the whole picture properly. If we want viable pushing, mukltikills, and outplays to work, we either need a gnasher with a small gib and a lower damage Lancer, or we need to go back to hyper-bounce, F-Zero speed Gears; there’s no halfway.

And I really think we should be pushing for the former, because it will make for a more consistent experience online. And because I don’t find holding shots and chaining gibs “fun”; it’s ridiculously repetitive. I want to be popping off Gnasher shots left and right all the time, holding my opponents at bay, and able to escape Lancer crosses as they come in with good movement without getting downed in 2 seconds.

But yah, clearly the game is not feeling fun nor skillful at the moment, because the changes are so wishy-washy. They really need to go all in on a style; every time I read “wholistic approach” it makes me want to gag. :face_vomiting:

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This is where i am at too.

I’ll say that I started this thread in the morning when I was rushing out for the day, and I didn’t quite capture all the points in the way I wanted to. I went overboard in some things and didn’t pay enough attention to others.

In the end, without being too dramatic, i completely agree with your statement.

Just not as enjoyable as before.

Yep, I also believe in so many ways there isn’t a halfway with gears. I love gears 1/UE and 3. I just want the game to make sense and be intuitive.

Yes, the next step and the only way to “save” this tuning is to lower the damage of weapons. I think that would be the logical thing to do.

For a game to be at a good standing, I feel that the number one priority should be for all aspects of it to fit in place. I don’t believe we are currently there, I think we have gone further from that.

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i think they slow down the slide in&out cover for giving u more time to aim.

So if they find out the adv accuracy is return to the pre aim assist remove level, TC will speed up the game again.

U know people still not try to aim but rush as close as they could and gamble for the gib is no way to put on the esport table.

i didn’t ready your whole post, but i didn’t read anything regaring the wet noodle lancer

I’ll be the one to get ■■■■ on by this community, but I think the GIB range needs to be increased, I don’t like that if I hit every single one of my pellets on a shotgun shot I’ll do anywhere from 85-93% and if I missed even 1 pellet I could understand the 85% but if I’m close enough for every pellet to hit it should be a gib

Aside from that and them lowering the slide speed (please tell the team to bump it back up @TC_Sera) I like the new tuning

look that I remove the assist faith aimed playing all against all and I felt as if the shackles had been released, I could make very good movements but obviously I put myself at a disadvantage and I was no match to fight against the aim assist, and I think there is the Detail, I feel that they should draw a list of developers of how the game was and with the assistance completely eliminated, it is like playing another gears seriously, try it, remove the assistance and you will see that the game feels very but mutually good

I have played the game and I find it extremely frustrating to play it sometimes the movement feels stiff, but something told me that I had to look at something that has always bothered me, and it is the aim assist so I deactivated it, I could move with fluid fight, it was like play gears when I was doing it epic, I think we are attacking where it is not and the main enemy of this game is the aim assist, this is what has made the game feel bad and if you have not tried the game without assistance, do it you and you will see the change and how gears must really feel.
I share a video of me playing without aim assist

a competitive game that allow 2 different pellet spreads from the same position for reasons that don’t depend on the player
would you play one like that?try to not think you’re already a gears player

a lot of players were being carried by the whole aim assist package (adhesion, magnetism, friction)
it’s only natural to see them needing adjustments

this was already a debate with people joining private lobbies with aim assist off in the settings and in competitive escalation

also, if they were pros, they were already used to no magnetism. maybe these you mentioning were pubs monsters instead

only scrollwheelers are unhappy about the changes as they think youtube and twitch won’t give them millions anymore

mate you missed all your shots, game has nothing to do with this

What?

I play with AA off, I am 1 of the people who’ve been pushing the most for the removal of AA for the better part of 1 year.

(Before you say it…, I use a controller. This shows keyboard keys as I took a screenshot)

is that for me, many movement restriction problems disappear when I remove the aim assist, and that’s why I was saying it, I didn’t know you were playing like that, but I play with aim assist because playing without it is very difficult to beat someone who has aim assist activated, but I can’t move as well as I would like, I feel like they should remove the aim assist completely for a better game

I’m not talking or complaining that I don’t kill, I know I failed, what I wanted to show is that the game feels more fluid without AIM ASSIST, so I don’t understand what you mean by your statement, I know that it went wrong and I put myself at a disadvantage by removing the aim assist, I just wanted to test the feeling of the game and I repeat, WITHOUT AIM ASSIST, I DEACTIVATED IT