New Ranking System - Good but consider this?

[Livo]

@xxxGAUNTLETxxx

So I guess what I’m saying is, you can tell she knows how to play the game. A crappy random might have better stats because they got more kills but they didn’t do what needed to be done at that precise moment to turn the game or save the game. So to me overall score doesn’t show the whole picture. Higher ranks yes I believe for a solo queue.

I’m really trying to be polite and honestly without seeing her play, it’s hard to even comment but I can only really base what I am saying from what you’re telling me.

By the sounds of it she fits really well into your squad’s playstyle, my best answer to that would be that whilst that may be the case, if she were to play like that outside of your squad then she wouldn’t be very helpful and I feel like the game can see that.

I don’t know how to word that any more polite, i’m sorry.

@Demigod_Mighty

That’s incorrect, with the old scoring system I would’ve gotten 50 pts for downing the opponent & they would’ve gotten 100 for the kill.

This sounds strange but honestly I can’t remember, I thought that you would get 100pts for the kill and the person taking the kill got 10pts UNLESS they person taking the kill did a lot of damage themselves.

I did type out a huge reply to you but I wasn’t certain enough on the points and I don’t like to say something unless I am certain so i’m going to give you this based on me not knowing. I will say though that if you were dealing full damage for your eliminations, you’d have earned 17,325pts just from those. I think perhaps you weren’t doing as much damage as you claim but being unable to remember the old scoring system fully, I don’t want to debate it so i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

@Fumes_Cuh

Nothing wrong with support fire. Incentivizes team play and good solo play.

I haven’t said that there is, I have said that it needs to be impactful enough to actually help in order to be rewarded.

@VisioN_Shura30

Maybe you forgot why tc had to come to this.
Beside the ridiculous post match screen, random point and rank shuffling, people did complain asking why they couldn’t understand the logic behind their leaderboard position.

I haven’t forgotten, I see the complaints about it totally, which is why I think that the whole thing should be a background mechanic that players can’t see that is just used to matchmake against similarly skilled players.

@VisioN_Shura30

So, again, I’m asking you to remember why we have come to this

Again, I would prefer it to be in the background but I know that won’t happen. Knowing that it’s here to stay, I have also said that I really like the new GP system. I am not trying to say otherwise, I am saying that it’s important that it’s giving out progress for correct reasons.

@VisioN_Shura30

You just said players don’t need to know their rank as this system it’s not a competition but a mean to place people correctly in the lobby.
Of course it’s a competition but in a decent setting there’s still leagues where everyone plays similar ranks with a system in place to rank up or down someone.
Even in sports there’s a load of stats for people to analyze
Sorry but a statement like that is plain stupidity.

It isn’t a competition. If you get to Masters and another player doesn’t, other than a pointless skin what do you get? Nothing, there’s no prize but people behave like ranked is going to net them the next eSports prize pool.

I’m also not saying that it’s not for people to try and improve with, there’s no harm in improving but it’s self improvement for yourself and only you, it doesn’t matter what rank another player is, focus on your rank.

Sports, yes you’ve just made my point for me exactly. Let’s use Football as an example. Football has a table for the season, this IS a competition and all teams want to win for a trophy and a payout, but I want to look at the “stats”

Here’s the English Premier League Table (I don’t follow football so I have no preference, this is an example using your own point)

A win will give a team 3 points, a draw will give 1 point, a loss will give 0 points

These are basic scoring systems to rank the teams within the Table. Liverpool are top because they have met that criteria more than any other team in this season. If we look at this we can see that Norwich City have underperformed and as a result are at the bottom.

With what you’re wanting to see in Gears is similar to suggesting that Norwich should have been able to earn more points by earning more Corner Kicks. Why? A Corner Kick is a small event within a match that has the potential to help their team win, had they won then the reward would have come from the 3pt win, they shouldn’t get a pity point every time that they earn a corner.

I agree that there’s many stats to analyze but not all of them are relevant to achieving the top spot. For example there’s a stat tracker in football to show how far a player ran in a match, let’s say that Aston Villa had the player who did the most running in the season, they’re not going to randomly earn 20 points for it, it’s a meaningless statistic.

@VisioN_Shura30

I’m sad that you focused on this single bullet thing… Should’ve known that was an extreme and it’s not possible to get to onyx with only that…

I used this as an extreme because although it’s silly, it’s 100% possible!

I am not trying to push out other ideas but I felt like you were looking for ways to make it way too easy for players to rank up.

@VisioN_Shura30

And tbh even if an exploit is possible, people will eventually plateau or rank down because they can’t keep a good rank with a single lancer bullet or a few marks.

They can though, with this system they really really can. There’s nothing at all stopping a player from getting 40 easy eliminations per match and this is meaning that they’re able to hit their cap for that match. This won’t eventually stop when they hit a higher rank. If they’re playing with a team who will win for them then they will be carried up and up just by doing this easy task, That’s why I am saying it’s a problem, it’s not a silly thing to say at all.

[PHYSCOL1AM]

Eliminations won’t boost people… The people who are bad at the game don’t even get that many eliminations lol. And anyways they will plateau when they get int there rank because they won’t get the win and enough points to rank up. Also I don’t really get your point on the losing points for a loss. The win should be the main thing to give the most points and to be the deciding factor in making sure you make more points or lose some. It would be very easily exploitable and just would boost people if you made it able to balance out if you performed well or if you made it so they actually benefitted from the loss. I mean think about it if I play really well every game I’m never going to go down until I hit my ceiling. Because even if I lose I won’t go down because I’m playing well. This means I can just keep on climbing with literally no repurcussions it makes the whole gp points thing superficial until I hit my ceiling as I’ll hardly lose points. That’s not a healthy system as majority of players would be higher than they should be as they don’t basically get punished for losing unless they are having a bad game.

[III_NEN_III]

@VisioN_Shura30

A single lancer bullet or a mark should always be rewarded as it’s team play and we had multiple requests from support players for their role to be acknowledged.

Then separate these things. Have spots that lead to kills be it’s own thing. Have assists be it’s own thing. Have kills be it’s own thing. That way you can reward harder objectives (Kills) and easier objectives (spots/assists) without equating them.

[Livo]

I see what you’re saying but I thought about that before posting so I disagree.

I suggested that the cap changes based on your rank so that it’s more reflective of how that player would be expected to peform. If that player is constantly performing as expected then they don’t really deserve to go down a rank on a loss, they should only go down a rank if they’re underperforming based on what’s expected of their rank. I also suggested that kills should be worth 1GP, not 2GP.

With my suggestion, let’s say that a player is Diamond. They would need to make up 170GP in that game. That would be quite an effort, especially to do consistently. Doing this wouldn’t boost you in anyway, it’d just mean that you don’t go down a rank. If a player is making up this much of a score in a game then if they lose, it’s probably not their fault so they’d get a flat 0 score on a loss. In order for progression though they’d need to win.

This suggestion is to remove players feeling like bad teammates are making them lose rank when they didn’t deserve to lose.

[VaPoRiZe_TX]

If you want to reward or encourage support play add a separate metric under assists and get rid of elims. Also it’s hard to hit that 100 point threshold as is rn in KoTH because of the caps on ‘elims’ and capping…if you have good hill defense or don’t allow the other team to cap how are you going to reach the sufficient number of breaks to hit 100? You’d have to boost…

[S_T_Y_R_A_N_K_l]

My stance right now is that let’s first see how the current system plays out over time before rushing to decide on changes. It’d also be interesting to see some statistics of how many players have attained each rank after the pre-season is over just so we’ll be able put things better into perspective etc.

Keeping the system as simple as possible while maintaining a reliable representation of skill should be the goal. If the current system ends up working well as simple as it is, I don’t think we’ll need as detailed of a system as you’re suggesting. But, if adjustments are required then of course those should also be made.

I will add though that you make very valid points here and you’re clearly putting thought into what you write on these forums. Should the ranking system need adjustments I’ll surely turn to this thread. But for now I’ll keep playing until we have some long-term results I can base my final opinion on

[Demigod_Mighty]

It’s crazy that you’re still arguing this point, despite the fact that I have provided you with solid evidence to the contrary. It is obvious that you’re insisting on whatever point you were trying to make in the first place because you are no longer getting MVP status consistently since the other ppl who have obviously contributed more than you now are & you’re throwing a tantrum like a child.

By attempting to theorize something I’m telling actually happened & insisting I’m incorrect, you’re basically saying I’m dumb & don’t know how the game works but you do.

Obviously to you anyone not using a gnasher it’s basically ‘OmG YoU DuNnO WhAt YoUrE DoInG DuDe’, not understanding that there are different playstyles NEEDED to win these games. The fact that you are so ignorant, in my mind, makes whatever suggestion or proposal you gave for this game invalid… And I hope any dev or TC that read this thread think so too.

[R_SW1PE]

I don’t think this ranking system for KOTH is good at all. Here’s the issues I see with it:

• Elims cap - way way too easy to achieve through natural play
• Caps cap - easy to get through natural play
• Breaks cap - difficult to achieve through natural play if you play KOTH the correct way

MVP comes down to who has the most breaks in the majority of matches. The old scoreboards with the normal points scores were a much better representation of who is the most skilled.

I’m finding myself having to adjust the way I play just to cheat the system out of more skill points for the breaks. i.e. doing things that are counter intuitive to skill & winning. e.g. letting the other team cap the ring just so I can break it or visiting old rings with just a few points so I can break when usually I’d be at the next hill.

How eliminations & kills are weighted as the same flat value (2 pts) I’ve no idea.

It’s still heavily based on winning rather than your own skill.

With the whole buy in thing I see there being the issue of stacks not wanting to end the matches until they’ve maxed out their points.

[Snexed]

Surprised no-one has mentioned Gridiron yet, it’s even worse as it’s actually difficult to get 50 points if you win 14 - 0 so you’d get deranked if you were Masters.

Also just to add I wish they’d change the wins to round wins instead. Say 75pts for KOTH, 25pts for Gridiron and 2v2, it would reward teams who lose 14 - 12 for example in Gridiron it’s a bit different to 14 - 0

[KiwikindUK]

Probably a dumb question, apologies. But if there are no placement matches anymore, then doesn’t that mean that players that should by all rights always stay in Bronze 1, will almost always end up getting smashed by a team that should be in Gold or higher? Obviously that good team will move on up and find their natural level after a certain number of matches. But that bad team still had to lose heavily to them. And then even when that good team has moved up, there’ll be another team worthy of a higher level, starting the season and smashing that bronze team again.

Have I understood this right? I’m a pretty decent KotH player, nothing too special, but I play quickplay. I’ll usually get between 4000 and 6000 points in a single round. But trying ranked yesterday, I won one match and lost 5 - heavily. Hence my question!

[Creanius]

I agree with most of what you said.

To be honest, to make it fair to “support players” maybe assist can have their on GP aswell. But personally, it doesn’t really bother me if they get points for eliminations if they just marked the target. The reason I don’t mind, it’s because I’m still outperforming them on every aspect. The only downside, is that bad players are gonna rise through the ranks… and that would actually bother me.

With that being said, increasing the cap as you raise through the ranks is a great idea, but I believe is better to just delete the cap.

In my opinion, the way this ranked system works right now, is not going to put Masters players in Masters. It’s going to put players that have time to play this game all day on masters (whether they are good or not.)

To be fair to TC, It is much more intuitive now, just make those corrections and you got yourself a great ranking system.

Oh, and bring placement matches back. It’s annoying that I play with my not so good friends against master sweats lol.

[RedDoog888]

I so agree. In op3 you certianly did not see any worries about the high ranks mixed in with low ranks and getting the 100 plus kills off them to rank up.

lets be honest its a team play on KOTH and the whole team should be rewarded. yes slayers should ge a bit more but last week i play 3 straight games 65 eliminations and got big zero on all three had the highest caps and breaks…so what i suck and finsih in the bottom and walk away with nothing. while some diamiond player on on the other team desytoys me.

If ranks play together you never see high ranks with big kill counts. thats coming so then you will want those elimantions points your self right?

[Creanius]

You make a really good point ngl.

However, the elims cap is still too low. Changing it to 1 gp is not a bad solution (would truly show the difference between a good/bad player) but there are games and we all know it, that we may reach up to 150 elims because of how sweaty it can get.

Right now the cap is 40 elims (it is realistically low on koth, some matches get long and is just a matter of time to reach that without even trying) and it really doesn’t tell who is the good player or the bad one.

I’d suggest to put 1 gp for elims and make the cap to 120. Not everybody gets to 120, and is probably only achievable on 3 rounds koth games.

The problem right now, is that when people start ranking up, their ranks are going to go up no matter how good they are, because individual performance caps at a very low ceiling, and what really matters rn is team victory And we are all going to see it over time when we get to masters and we are playing with okayish players.

In my opinion, all TC needs to do is increase individual performance cap (elims, caps, etc) at least on KOTH, and the ranked system would be perfect. However, individual performance still should not be a higher factor than winning the game. Because then people would play for elims, and would ruin the competitive aspect of it.

[SattiYadav]

This new ranking system is transparent and for Koth, it is a welcome change. Prior to Op4, I always ended up as the guy who caps or breaks rings while remaining guys just go for eliminations. Top players are too egoistic to break a ring and make a sacrifice for team, which led to us losing matches. Having said that, putting a cap on elims felt strange. That should be looked at.

[Slipping_Flames]

Was everyone on the international space station?

That’s the worst ping for ten players I’ve ever seen.

[SattiYadav]

That’s gears 5 matchmaking for you …Majority of players were from Asia but we were placed in US West server …Not sure how allocation of server happens…sometimes for same 10 people , we get ping less than 20 ms

[Slipping_Flames]

That’s horrible and should never happen.

The game must have played like quicksand.

[VisioN_Shura30]

@Livo

For example there’s a stat tracker in football to show how far a player ran in a match, let’s say that Aston Villa had the player who did the most running in the season, they’re not going to randomly earn 20 points for it, it’s a meaningless statistic

That would be the equivalent of having a roadie run tracker for gp which is not the case.
Still we have multiple items that were already tracked in game and by looking at your recent tweets you weren’t even aware that kills had various, whilst small, multipliers that influenced the overall score which they already used to rank and match people.

Soccer isn’t even the right sport to compare gears to as it’s win/lose.
There are more complex scoring system. Think of 2 or 3 points in basketball, American football scoring system and even darts or billiards.

Still you either win or lose a koth round / match but to rank players and have balanced matches we need to take into account the overall performance over a period of time.

So you still can’t convince me, we need more items to be tracked. Again, the overall score already takes a player’s behavior into account, we only need this to be translated into a better table.
So yeah I agree on kills and assists to be on their own and a complete overhaul of the current caps to allow for more items.
While thinking at it, they could just break down the score system that’s already in place and count events instead of mashing everything into a number

[Mad_Mikeigan]

I am personally a big fan of the ranking system, and apologies Livo but I fully agree with the others in a sense that the new gp system for elims is forcing more team play which has been a huge flaw til now. People are finally learning how to use a lancer

My concern is more around the matchmaking, with the new restrictions me and my team have struggled to find a game of ranked gridiron since hitting gold. Feel like were going to have to constantly wait on people catching up to be able to progress to the next tiers which is extremely annoying. We were all TDM players, think what you want of that I know a lot of people have been clear on how much they dislike it or the lack of skill required to play it… But none of us enjoy Koth. So were now stuck with a game mode that clearly not enough people are playing and the ranked system is now going to be a nightmare to complete

[Demigod_Mighty]

I can definitely agree with 1 GP for eliminations & 120 as the cap, however I think the devs were trying to make sure any “non-skilled players” stayed in silver since you NEED a win in gold to even maintain your points.

Which, is understandable.