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[Main] Ranking System Discussion, and Feedback


(theshieguy) #1753

I think the background info on percentage gains and losses needs to be visible to players. Right now, I’m Onyx 2 in Arms Race. I was steadily ranking up just fine in previous ranks, but now I’m seeing dips after each loss. I jumped from the starting 33.33% to 41% in one win, until I dipped from 41% to 39% after one loss. Okay, fine…38% to 44% after a few games. Then 42% to 39% after three losses. Then 40% to 47% after five straight wins.

Once I peaked at 47% last weekend, my numbers have either frozen on wins or dropped on losses. I went on a 9-game win streak after dropping to 37% and got nothing for it, but the first game I lost dropped 2%. I’ll show the before and after.

My last win before I continued dropping:

My current stats:

It’s now usually 3-5% taken away on losses and nothing for wins. Obviously, I know that I have a “debt” to pay off for wins to bring me back up, but without full info on my behind the scenes numbers, I don’t even know how many wins I would need just to get back to the original 47%, not even factoring in getting to Onyx 3.

The matchmaking has been putting me in a lot of…questionable lobbies against players who are unranked and I’ve constantly gotten teammates who are also unranked and/or play like they are probably Bronze 3 or lower. Getting to Onyx 2 felt like a grind already due to the heavy lifting that I have to do in most games. But something feels very OFF about matchmaking when I am on a team with a random that is bot-walking in an Onyx lobby and he doesn’t know what button to press to revive teammates.

I’ve had lobbies where I have to type in team chat to tell people to spot enemies (and, of course, they still don’t). I was in a 5v3 game on Clocktower a few days ago and all four of my teammates (one who was Onyx 3) ran into the enemy spawn and gave them free kills…you know, instead of shooting from cover in a COVER-BASED shooter. For reference, the enemy team progressed from Overkill (weapon #4) to Longshot (weapon #11) in about three minutes. The messed up part about that game is that if those idiot teammates of mine had given the match to the remaining three enemies, I would have lost percentage because of it.

I have a separate issue with people throwing matches I’ll touch on later, but for now: can anyone at TC take a look at my stats and tell me how many “quality” matches I need to win to start ranking back up?

(III EnVii III) #1754

There’s no set number of quality matches and you can’t really even control how many you get.

You just have to make sure you play well every single game.

(xR3YxV3NG4DOR) #1755

I ask for help to the developers, I have a problem with the ranking statistics I win and win games and I do not go up and lose and if they lower me they have to check that problem in my account and they solve it because it is not possible for me to win the mvp and still not raise, please help me with my problem my profile is Xr3yxv3ng4dor

(D3ad1ych1ck3n) #1756

Gears%20of%20War%204%204_1_2019%202_04_44%20PM I was told to beat diamond to achieve the next level and I stayed at 79% or something like that.

(mike yaworski) #1757
  1. There was a gold on the other team that was feeding
  2. You’re not going to see instant results after every game. Be consistent and you’ll rank up.

(D3ad1ych1ck3n) #1758

1 gold and I killed the Dimond player at least 2 or 3 times,

(Me0wMix CatFood) #1759

Doesn’t work like that. You have to consistently perform high. There’s an unseen rank that is moving with each match. It may have gone up with this. But, you don’t beat a high level player once and get a huge promotion. I’ve had MVP matches where I caused D5 players to go negative and haven’t moved up at all because I did poorly in the match before. Consistency is key.

(mike yaworski) #1760

Those are good games. Keep them up and you’ll get Diamond real soon

(D3ad1ych1ck3n) #1761

I stayed at 87% sure. I may be in fourth, but I had a positive K/D and 1 diamond player on their team. This happens to me all the time when I win against Dimond players. Like c’mon, I worked hard not dying and we won the match. I stayed at 87%. At least give me 1% or 5%. Before I posted this, I beat a team of two Dimond players when I was at 90%. I was so excited to finally reach tier 3 ONXY and I was either MVP or in 2nd. what did I get? 90%. Like come on, what kind of reward is that. Its like a job, You do better than everyone else everyday for like a month or so ask for a promotion, and the boss says no. I don’t have that evidence of beating two Dimond players last week, because I was not excepting to stay the same. That bummed me out.

(III EnVii III) #1762

You lost a round and came 4th in your team with only a good result, I don’t think this performance would have been worth much. The 3 guys on your team pretty much did the work and you did do you part for sure but then that’s reflected in not getting any %.

(SM0KIN D4BS) #1763

This is exactly what I been asking and talking about…if it truly is working as intended then why is tc so afraid to make the unseen stats visible for us players to track how we are doing and where to improve

(III EnVii III) #1764

It’s just a TruSkill stat.

Your rank reflects it anyway.

So when your hidden rank goes up, so does your visible one.

Same for the way down.

It doesn’t really offer you that much info once you stop moving upwards behave this indicates you’ve hit your wall, your skill ceiling. Naturally everyone’s is different.

(SM0KIN D4BS) #1765

Okay but that’s not always true u can play many games and the visible stats don’t change but ur invisible skill is changing or so u have said before it changes behind the scenes and then consistent good games changes the visual part…so which is it? The truskill is always changing with the visible tracker or is it changing constantly but the visible one doesn’t? U can’t contradict urself it either works one way or the other hence why it should become visible to avoid confusion in the community

(III EnVii III) #1766

How it exactly works, how closely it relates and how quickly it updates, I’m sure only TC can tell you.

But from what you can analyse and see, when you prove to the system your skill has gone up or you improve and your skill rating goes up, even within the same match where you do a lot better than expected, you can expect that your skill rating has gone up because you also would then get a % boost.

So seeing a number and a rank can be confusing - so TC chose to hide the number and show the rank.

I guess you need to read the guide I linked.

If you still question if it’s working then you are not understanding the guide.

Also watch the videos with Ryan Cleven. He explicitly states how it works, how you move up and what causes you to go down.

Still don’t think it’s working?

Then you aren’t grasping it and need to read it again or re-watch the videos.

I was the same like everyone else at one point.

I didn’t understand why I was winning and not going up.

I was readily keeping up and bettering players of higher ranks consistently.

I knew something was up.

Luckily when I posted here, Octus looked at my profile and posted back to confirm one of the VERY few times where my True Skill was in fact higher than my visible rank at the time.

Pretty much every other time, people got the same answer: your skill rating does either match or closely match your rank.

However for me, Octus confirmed I should actually be higher and that’s when I looked into and learnt about the system.

Once I did that, I put that into practice and it worked.

From there, I got a very good understanding and it was quite simple in the end.

The ranking system is heavily based around the killing stat - get the kills, get the % and higher rank.

If you are in a game with similar ranks and with similar kills, even if you win, did you really deserve to go up? Or are you simply playing as expected?

Because playing as expected doesn’t mean you go up, even if you get MVP and go positive.

You need to be much better than the others to be recognised as a higher skilled player.

Now, the point is - many people simply aren’t that good enough, everyone will want and think they should be going up all the time.

But the truth is, and I want you to read this line again:

If you are really good enough and put in a performance worthy enough to gain, you will.

That’s the simple truth.

If you ain’t going up, then you aren’t doing well enough.

So unless you are going 10-1 or 12-0 or 20-2 or something very high, CONSISTENTLY, match after match, then you are accurately where you are.

Because when I play against lower tiers like a few games last night,

I drop 40-50-60+ kills when everyone else is doing 15-25 in KOTH.

That would show that you don’t belong with that group of players but higher up.

(Omen LP) #1767

Well, that’s the theory, anyway…

how about I give you some examples of games where I DID gain, please against much lower ranked squads :slight_smile:

(i’m not complaining about the results below, I am simply trying to demonstrate it’s not as cut and dry as some people think it is. It’s perfectly possible to gain rank, playing against weaker opponents, when you do really well. Good/bad, I don’t know, it just is):

5 man team, with 2 onyx, no onyx on the other side, i went up:

Same here:

Not a 5 man team, but still 2 onyx here, none there:

2 onyx on my side, only 1 onyx on the other, gained:

How about this? We had onyx and gold, they nothing like that, also gained:

Only onyx in the game, still gained:

Here I really felt bad, it felt like i was beating up on kids:

Even with a quitter on the other side:

So yes, it is perfectly possible to rank up playing against, on paper, weaker opponents, even when you are in a 5 man squad and they aren’t… Depending on your performance…

The details of the system are not visible to us, so it’s hard to say WHY that is the case. but it definitely is possible.

One possible thing to consider: based on an article BChaps posted a while ago, it seems that long term trend is taken into consideration. So if you (like me) had a long time of not doing much and just messing around without knowing what to do, when you actually START to try, you will find it very hard to rank up. I couldn’t get past gold… No matter what i did.

I created a new account, started from scratch, jumped to onyx in no time, in tdm, koth, and dodgeball… got to onyx2 in koth and tdm, and now I’m done with that account, going back to playing on my regular one, and will ignore rank until gears 5… I don’t believe I will ever get to diamond, reflexes and such aren’t there anymore, but I’m comfortable being a mid onyx player… :slight_smile:

So, if you are stuck in rank, and no matter how well you do, no matter how you “outperform” others in the games, try setting up a new account, and see how that goes for you…

And if you can find some lower ranked people to play with, that’s the best way to game this system. haha, you know the saying “I don’t need to outrun the zombies, I just need to outrun you?” Same here, you just need to outperform your team mates…

And if you perform well consistently, then losses won’t hurt all that much, or even at all (even if you underperform a bit during the games). None of these really hurt my rank :

(III EnVii III) #1768

You took that entire quote out of context.

Try again next time not to cherry pick but also read the connecting part wherever there is one :+1:

But good to see at least you are reading what I write :blush:

And remember - I go into a higher rank straight out of placement than what you actually play at and getting percentage gains at that low Onyx tier is in one sense quite “easy” - I usually rocket out of there no problem.


Here’s a hint, the part you quoted, read the following few lines for clarification and that shows everything you just posted to “prove me wrong” in fact backs up what I said.

So I thank you for confirming MY points and pretty much what I have been saying all along :v:

(Slqys) #1770

i was a diamond 4 99.66% eligible for promotion yet after winning and winning i mean like constantly outplaying diamonds and all i started to loose percent and idk why its so annoying to know i should have been d5 but i dropped for some odd readon i won matches in a row with mpv most kills caps and least amount of deaths and still keeps going down even to this day now im at 88% image|281x499

(III EnVii III) #1771

You aren’t actually eligible for promotion until you cross 100% mark.

So 99.66% isn’t enough.

(Slqys) #1772

i get that but why did it tell me i was either way if i win 3 matches after against diamonds and dont move any % and i was mvp 2out if 3 games like what do i do then

(III EnVii III) #1773

It’s just a visual bug because it rounds up from 99%.

But you can’t go up if you haven’t crossed 100%.

And breaking in to Diamond 5 is ridiculously hard.

Just winning and MVP doesn’t guarantee anything.

Best you can do is try and win without losing rounds in the game and also get as many kills as possible.