[Main] Ranking System Discussion, and Feedback

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(EVIL 0NE) #1

We’ve seen multiple threads created with the topic of the Ranking System in Gears of War 4. Decided to create a primary thread to discuss this.

TC’s current response on the Ranking System:

We are evaluating the impact of wins vs losses for future Seasons from a design perspective.
From a technical standpoint, the system is working as intended.

Full Explanation of the Ranking System, and results from the previous investigation can be found at: HERE

Our team has spent the past week diving into a metric ton of detail and data – from individual player reports to bigger picture comparisons of our entire playerbase. Here’s just some of the aspects we investigated:

  • Comparisons in Rank Gains / Losses between the past week and 5 other comparable weeks in Season 3
  • Breakdowns by audience skill percentile to determine if this was impacting a certain segment of the skill curve
  • Breakdowns per playlist to determine if there was anomalous behavior in a certain playlist
  • Reports into the potential of users erroneously getting placed in lower tiers
  • Individual user reports, especially those involving significant Tier or Ranked Losses

Thank you so much for your patience as we took the time to comprehensively investigate these reports with the level of attention they deserved.

Results of the Investigation

After a week of thorough investigation, the conclusion is that our Ranking System is working as intended. The extensive data research we’ve conducted across a variety of factors shows no abnormal or unexpected behavior in the system.

Through the investigation, we’ve identified factors at play that cause the seemingly odd player-facing behavior of winning a match only to see your Rank progress drop (more on that in a second). We absolutely recognize that this is a confusing experience for our players, and it’s something we’re thinking about how we can improve moving forward.

So why can my Rank drop significantly?

In the player reports we investigated (thank you to everyone who passed along your Gamertag), along with wider data research, we discovered two key factors in significant drops:

  • At the beginning of each match, both team’s Skill Ratings are used to determine the likelihood of you winning or losing the match. This is then combined with individual factors that take into account if you are in a Squad, the size of that Squad, and how many Squads are on the other team.

For example, if you are a team of 5 going up against a team of individuals with equal Skill Ratings, the team of 5 will almost certainly have a higher ‘odds to win’ in the calculation.

The big gains and losses occur when the system is defied. If you lose a match you are expected to win, the impact will be much bigger than losing a match you are expected to lose – and vice versa.

In all of the user reports we investigated that involved major drops, the player was predicted with a significantly high chance of a win (one was even as high as 97%) and lost. In these situations, which the system determines are almost certainly a win, you can see a major drop in your Skill Rating (and therefore your Rank Progress or Tier).

  • Season 3 is also the first time we’ve instituted multiple Diamond Rankings which has resulted in more fluctuations at the highest level.

With the tight Skill Ratings and small top percentile of players that make up Diamond, combined with the fact only a set number of players can be in a select Diamond tier at one time, this is even more noticeable for our best players. This also includes the potential to be de-ranked to Onyx. In previous seasons, once a player was in Diamond there was no visual indication of how they compared against other players so any rank changes were not noticeable.

Why did I drop when I won a match?

This was a concerning report for us to receive but one that we’ve been able to explain through this investigation.

Your Tier Progress is not reflected instantly in all cases after the completion of a match - this can be as long as 2 hours after completion. This can cause the impact of a significant loss to be seen immediately after a win, hence the reports we received. If the win was not a significant odds-defying win, the net result can be a regression in your progress rather than progression.

We’ll continue to monitor any new reports that fall outside the explanations of our conclusion. If you’ve experienced any of the following cases, please tweet @CoalitionGears with info:

  • You won 5+ matches in a row but continued to de-rank throughout
  • You de-ranked fast from Onyx 2 to Gold 3, Gold 2 to Silver 3 or Silver 2 to Bronze 3

Please feel free discuss this topic on this thread, and provide any Feedback of the Ranking System.


Ranked quitters and mismatching
Im done with this game thanks to its ranking system
Ranked system needs fixed
Ranking system is trash
Quitters and rank
Ranking, Match Making, and the rest of this clown show
Is My rank % frozen?
They do not raise me a percentage
Range progress, error
Ranking system is not working?
Ranking system - please improve
I won matches and my stats don’t rise in rank
My %dont go up on few days
I do not raise the percentage of king of the hill even if I win games
Gotta love this game
Tdm ranking system
Tdm ranking system
The rank system does not work
Whats up 123456
Rankedd help please
Rankedd help please
the ranges are in the shit
is the percentages wrong to increase the rank?
is the percentages wrong to increase the rank?
the ranges are in the shit
Better ranking plz
Fix rank system
My rank, i need tour help
Ranking system went to complete garbage after it wouldnt let you place Diamond anymore
3 wins in TDM, solid all 3 games, rank % down 15%
Ranking system went to complete garbage after it wouldnt let you place Diamond anymore
Ranking system is wild
Wins not counting again
Ranking issues!
I can't upgrade muy rank in Versus
Estoy en onix 3 y tenia 72% y gane 7 partidas seguidas y no subio nada espere dos dias y nada ayudenme y tengo pruebas
Ranked it's working right?
Ranking system is going downhill
Classement problem
KOTH ranking system doesn't work well
Why is the ranking so broken
Going beyond Onyx 1 ranking
Ranking Percentage problem?
I’m tired of this
Ranking system glitched
Lol, sure, TC, your ranking system 'works as intended'
Lol, sure, TC, your ranking system 'works as intended'
Escalation ranking
Problem my porcentaje rango
Help me Coalition
Fix the broken progression ranking system
Hi mi name is Uriel
Ranked please Help me
Ranking Issues TDM
Ranking system broken smh
My percentage did not go up?
Fail help please
Fail in my acccount help please
Percentage is Broken
https://forums.gearsofwar.com/
Does anyone know how the ranking system actually works?
STOP making us not gain % after a few losses
How does ranking work?
Appears: Apt for Promotion, but not have 100%
I have 100% to go to diamond from onyx 3! What happened?
What's with the ranking system?
Fix ranked this is broken 10 win in a row positive I still in the same plase this is waste of time
Well done TC, Well done
Ranking system really suck
How to increase rank?
Gears ranking system
Complaint for the rank coalition
My ranking didnt go up IT stay on 68% after 6 matches help
What my rank percentage didnt go up
No rank level up i need help
Error in rankeds
Im winning matches and my percentage is going down?
Unbalanced Ranking In Games
Stuck on onyx in core
Sick of the matchmaking garbage
Ranking System Needs Changes
Complaint for the rank coalition
Help in Matchmaking
problem with statistics
Fix Rank Play and the lobby i just got kick out of a game and suspended me
Can't get to Diamond from Onyx KOTH
Diamond ranked is stuck
Problems with system ranking
Stuck in onyx 3
Not counting ranked games
I need to know why my rank is not moving up
Ranking System with Versus
DOes not go up percentage on King of the Hill
Frozen Rank stats
Frozen Rank stats
DOes not go up percentage on King of the Hill
Rank system issues
The ranked system is broken
The ranked system is broken
Frozen ranking issues
Rank questions 1
My rank = frozen
Problems with the rank
Rank system issues
I need to speak with someone ASAP about rank
my rank percentage does not go up on King of the Hill
my rank percentage does not go up on King of the Hill
Ayududenme Mi rango No sube y solo baja
Ranked Matchmaking issues in ASIA for PC players
The ranked points are broken
Jugadores que abandonan las partidas
Broken ranking system
Broken ranking system
Error in the rankeds
Error in the rankeds
My king of the hill % only goes down and not up
My king of the hill % only goes down and not up
My ranking keep going down even though I win WtF!
why they lower me so much of rank!?
I need your help TC
[RANKING SYSTEM ISSUES] Ranking Score only goes down not up
Ranking system broken again
My ranges do not raise immediate help
Rank issues (HEEEEELP)
Anyone else having trouble with the ranking system?
The ranking system broken
The ranking system broken
Sure percentage goes down is quick, but when win I get nothing
Sure percentage goes down is quick, but when win I get nothing
Simple Ranking System!
Simple Ranking System!
Problems with servers and stats
The ranking sistem suck
The ranking sistem suck
Percentage stuck on tdm
Winning matcehes and losing precentages
Really annoyed by gears ranking system
Not ranking up after winning many matches in a row
I Don't Wanna Be That Guy But,,,
No move my rank, and I win always
Competitive ranking system
Rank not up any mach win
Sorting failing and people leaving
Competitive ranking system
Sorting failing and people leaving
Competitive ranking system
Win 10 Multiplay And no up, lose one and terrible
Win 10 Multiplay And no up, lose one and terrible
This impeccable ranking system
Won 3 games iin row, mvp in 2. still not moved
No sube el porsentaje de rey de la colina
Need help ! Having problems with the ranking system
What happens with the gears of war 4 index
Ranking system must be fixed
Is the ranking system ever gonna get fixed?
The ranking system
Stat percentages are frozen
Stat percentages are frozen
We really need help in this
We really need help in this
Stat percentages are frozen
Coalition problems
Is Unbelievable!
RANKED ISSUE, they dont raise me
Rank going down with win or loss?
Very sad terrible
Arreglar las estadísticas de este juego
The system is broken
no percentage increases where I am a diamond, why?
Fix the rank sistem!
Fix the rank sistem!
The ranking system has to broken right?
Ranked question
Ranked question
Why not upgrade my rank on TDM?
Why not upgrade my rank on TDM?
My rank is not working
My rank is not working
Yet another ranking system complaint/Rant
Yet another ranking system complaint/Rant
Losing RANK progress when teammates leave
Losing RANK progress when teammates leave
Ranked system, my teammates go up and i go up 0%
Ranked system, my teammates go up and i go up 0%
Clarification about errors
Fix the rank sistem!
Ranked question
Why not upgrade my rank on TDM?
Losing RANK progress when teammates leave
Ranked system, my teammates go up and i go up 0%
My rank is not working
Yet another ranking system complaint/Rant
Ranhk not up server fellir
Ranking system is still bad(rant)
Come on dammm plz
Clarification about errors
Why am i on a 15 win streak and still going up no %,
Ranked so trash
Rank is frozen !?!
About the skill level of ranked players
Still having problems with frozen rank
They do not raise me in percentage
Problem in the ranking
Rankeds system is so bad
GOW4 the deception
(EVIL 0NE) #2

(waterflame116) #3

I have an Idea for a new ranking system that might make everyone happy:

Every win gives a fixed amount of percent, let’s say 10%.
If a player get’s MVP, they get 15%
if a player is on the bottom of the scoreboard, they get 5% for a win.

Now, if a player loses, they lose 10%
If that player got MVP, they would lose 5%
People on the bottom of the scoreboard lose 15% for a loss.

This seems like a balanced system to me, give me constructive criticism by replying to me.


(API) #4

It would be too easy to boost noobs to max rank. You can perform poorly or mediocre and still get carried because you get 10% per game.

There is also the issue that as long as you win more than 50% of your games, you will always be ranking up (on average). And that means way too many people would get to max rank after a certain amount of time.

In fact, it wouldn’t even matter the quality of players you play against. The system you suggested could only work if it always matched you up against opponents of equal skill. If there is any sort of imbalance (which there most often is), then it doesn’t really work.


(Pigeon Park Bum) #5

There should NOT be a set amount of people that can be in any ranking pool at any time.

Stopping people from ranking up, because that rank is already “full”, is pointless.

There should not be a cap on how many are ALLOWED to be a certain rank.

I’m no Onyx player, but if I was, I shouldn’t have to “wait in line” to be able to attain it.


(API) #6

It’s not really like that. You can still overtake people. Think about it like this: Diamond is given to the top 1000 people on the leaderboard. You can always break into that top 1000 and push someone out to 1001.

At least, that’s my understanding.


(Pigeon Park Bum) #7

Sure, but players who reach a certain rank, but do not want to lose it, remaining idle, and play other playlists, a player can only bounce down a rank, if they themselves earned that derank


(Relax Mxte) #8

They say it can happen but I don’t think it does. When I got my D5 in Escalation this season I decided to play solo and I lost a few games (left some as well when I was down a player) and I’ve been at 1.86% for a while now, just shy of the demotion threshold which I believe is 1.50%.

I struggle to believe that since then, not a single player has done good enough to push me out of Diamond 5, especially considering that pros (Former Supremacy, now Fable) play Ranked quite a lot and are D4. They are clearly better than me.

Again, it could happen and I could be wrong, but I’ve yet to see someone pushed out of Diamond by not playing the mode.


(API) #9

Yeah I have the same scepticism as you.

At the same time, I have never not been able to get D1 or D5. So are those idle players really locking all the spots? Not in my experience. I’ve also never lost a percent from being idle. So are people able to push me out? Not in my experience. Seems like I just contradicted myself.

I just trust the devs because none of us (the players) have enough info to say otherwise.


(Belkain) #10
  • The system is working as intended but I’m pretty sure that “it’s not updating as it should”. For example: 5 diamonds vs 5 silver, system predicts diamond win with a 100% chance and that’s reasonable but by whatever reason by the middle of the game it’s no longer a 5v5 but rather a 2v5. Is it still reasonable for the 2 diamonds to take the win? modes without objectives maybe but KOTH and Escalation I don’t think so, it’s just not possible yet the forums are plagued by reports of players losing rank in “unfair” situations. The system is there, it just doesn’t take into consideration what happens after the beginning of round 1.

  • Higher ranks should “defend” their ranks, something like the system the ATP (tennis) has: you made 10% on month 1 - week 1, you need to “validate” those points on month 2 - week 1 and if you don’t you lose rank. As far as I know, you can reach X rank on the first week of the season while never playing again and you will keep that rank, it’s fine for lower tiers but diamond being locked to a specified number is not (I’ve read way to many posts about people being locked on high % on onyx 3).


(Belkain) #11

I like the idea of everyone knowing exactly how the system works as opposed to “hmmm I guess I’m ok with the systems guess” (Trueskill is still at about 60% or so).

Fixed stats? sounds great but is has one small problem: If I play in the same team as the winner and MVP, all I have to do is hide in the corner while the top player on the other team scores 10 times higher, get’s second place and gains nothing?. I made it to onyx within a few days and gained % even when I lost so it’s not just winning.


(DarkChaoz95) #12

Currenly playing rank3d TDM and so far all matches i played so far are against Onyx 3s and diamond and yet Im a silver toer. How can low skilled stand a chance against these high skilled players?

This only tells me one thing, while I see few Gold’s its clear silver and bronze people are put off playing tdm, well during what time im playing. Because of playing and losing against high skilled players, this gives me a high temptation to quit.

Gears 4 matchmaking needs some serious overhaul, I shouldnt be matchmaking with onyx and diamonds. If it needs to matchmake me with other regions with a similar skill / rank to mine

Here is the proof:


(chaaze) #13

And how about you put the connection quality in the rankings equation?
I don’t remember seeing Diamond with <60ms ping… That says enough about the Rankings design, right?

Edit:
Rankings should serve only one purpose: equally balanced teams.


(RUPHCORE) #14

Your system may be performing as expected but that is only due to its limitations, it’s extremely crude and unsophisticated.

As you well know I’m sure most gamers don’t stack up, and if you want your game to sell, well…you get the picture.

In a nutshell, It’s ridiculous that we need to stack up in order to move up, no matter if you MVP, most kills, etc. etc.


(Sugar IT) #15

I’ve noticed that lately you only earn percentage with high K / D ratios.

For example playing in koth with 4 other friends I won 8 consecutive games in 3 days (now I’m onyx 2) against opponents of my level and also against diamonds.
At the 5 consecutive match won we had against 2 boys diamond 4 and 1 diamond 2 and the other onyx.
Although we beat them, I did not earn anything.
I have not earned anything for 7 consecutive games. After the 8th victory a poor increase of 8% that I lost shortly after losing in 2 consecutive 4vs5 games.
Most of the games I win do not give me% increases, just a defeat and it drops a lot.
I’m not the one who does more kills in the team, but the one that gives more support, is a necessary role in a team but apparently not results.

my competitive K / D ratio is 1.25 and W/ L 57% (I played 1370 koth games)

There are obvious problems in the rankings … in season 2 I was stuck in onyx 3 88% in koth for more than 1 month … The percentage has never gone up once. NEVER. on the other hand, as soon as I lost a game, I took it off.

With this system take 1 step forward and 5 back.

Another problem are the games that end 4/3/2/1 vs 5. I noticed that if you are in the losing team (and outnumbered) you lose percentage (despite the obvious disparity). While if you win in the 5-player team the% freezes and you earn nothing.

Sincerely now as I am not interested in degrees, because they are blocked as they are, not to mention that every time you start a season you switch from 3 onyx to gold 1.
So for me the diamond remains unattainable, but having more balanced teams with a more efficient system is something you have to work on.


(III EnVii III) #16

My main issue when trying to rank up is getting such small gains or no gains whatsoever.

This should not be the case - especially not gaining even 1% for a 20-30 minute match on KOTH after winning 2-0.

I have been stuck in Onyx 2 around the 60-90% since the season 4 started.

I climb very slowly to around 90%.

Last time out I lost two games in a row paired to a 5-stack team of;

Diamond 5
Diamond 5
Diamond 5
Diamond 5
Diamond 3

My team:

Diamond 2
Onyx 3
Onyx 3
Onyx 3
Onyx 2

So it paired us twice agaisnt this game squad.

Fair to say they each had about 20 downs!!! I very rarely encounter such a playstyle of solid Lancer fire but anyway, the point is,

We lost first match 2-0.

Then 2-1.

I went from 92% to 70%.

So about 2 weeks of grinding from about 58% to 92% wiped out in two games.

“The system is working as intended”

Come on now, how is that working as intended?

Why would any of the Onyx players have to suffer drops agaisnt such unequal team?

The system is clearly not working as intended because if that’s intended, it’s not a fair or coherent system.

You end up cheating players out of all that time spent in the game.

My individual performance wasn’t even that bad, first match was unexpected so I was 7/10 - remeber I was lowest ranked.

Next match I was like 4/10.

These are the issues that I think others experince.

*Not getting ANY percentage after a long match and winning 2-0 or winning all rounds.

*Losing massive chunks of percentage when you are heavily outranked by Opposition and end up losing all round or majority of rounds.

:-1:


(TG Junglist) #17

Good afternoon/ morning coalition employees and community members ,
Firstly i wanted to say mechanically i adore this gears; i’ve played since one and Gamebattles since 2 - previously for fun but now am attempting to take it seriously . Whilst i think escalation was a wonderful and creative addition to GoW and have a great deal of fun playing it; there are several issues i’ve found one is losing % when other players quit ranked this happens often whether its someone in my team or the other, Another is mismatching of rank to point where in escalation ive had bronzes on my team with two onyx 3 players on other side ive also had this happen where silvers are matched against onyxs as well which could exacerbate quitting due to the gulf in skill- a further issues would be premade 4/5 stacks going up against team of people who are solo quing which due to communication disadvantage is extremely difficult to win against a decent 5 stack.

Another problem ive experienced for several months is losing percent from two or one loses that wipe out 6-7 wins or several days of grinding- additionally i feel having the option to leave from start encourages players to leave when tilted. ive also had abuse thrown at me for simply asking teammates not to get in chunk range, cross and rotate to hill when trip cap is coming through and they are in position to get a touch- its frustrating as its preventing me from getting back in onyx then getting to diamond in escalation which would be handy as im putting a team together to go lan and know so players wouldn’t take me seriously given my rank or GB record despite being able to hang with diamonds and competitive players. if these issues aren’t addressed within next few months i fear we will not only lose more of the player base but the growth of the competitive community in EU, LA and NA will be hindered as less new players will be coming through- it’ll also n doubt hurt sales for Gears 5 which is the last thing i want to happen ;especially given fact the esports has gotten investment it never had before.

Here are several suggestions you could implement to provide redress and not let your craftsmen/women ship be wasted.

  1. Use an MMR system to give more balanced lobbies if other team has either an onyx or diamond in make it so you have at least one diamond or onyx on both teams- only que silvers with gold 1/2 and gold with corresponding onyx tier if necessary .

2 remove the return to menu button until someone dashboards and only make the quitter lose percent for that match; also month or so bans for severe leavers may help too.

  1. remove core tuning- have one universal tuning as a major issue i have experienced is people playing mainly core trying escalation but getting confused at the ranges and damage of each weapon. The competitive tuning is by far superior anyway better balance and can actually strafe and has an increased ability for outplays as a result making the matches more enjoyable leading to a continual growth of the game.

  2. have set percentage inputs to balance the ranking system say 5/10 /12 % either for win or a loss 25% if quit not if you dc though.

  3. demand a set of dedicated servers from Microsoft due to the ranking and competitive ladders now being global to allow players on US ,Asia or EU serves to play a game without severe lag as whilst veterans and gb kids can play with 180-200 ping not everyone is able so to new or just casual players will either madden them or stop them playing completely/ quit.

  4. have a tier above diamond which is fo the top 200 hundred in world like masters in League, Onyx in Halo or grandmaster in smite- this would not only give people something more to grind for it’d help coaches and players improve their ability to recruit along with potentially new talent being discovered- credit goes to Optic Ashes for such a suggestion.

I’d love to hear what both the developers and community think about the suggestions i presented and am willing to talk at length about them to anyone who desires to do so.
Thank you for your time
i look forward to the replies and discourse.
Oliver Whitehead


(crazychainsaws8) #18

Also keep in mind every day people stop playing gears 4e and the broze and silver population is dying this is why your going against onix and diamonds.


(DarkChaoz95) #19

Indeed, because low skilled players have no hope in beating the high skilled. I would have thought it be the opposite. The high skilled players quit playing a particular mode to preserve their rank,


(Teady Bearz) #20
  1. The game already uses a “true skill number” to balance matches.
  2. A loss is a loss. You can still win a 4v5.
  3. remove comp tuning- have one universal tuning as a major issue i have experienced is people playing mainly comp trying king of the hill but getting confused at the ranges and damage of each weapon. The core tuning is by far superior anyway better balance and can actually strafe and has an increased ability for outplays as a result making the matches more enjoyable leading to a continual growth of the game.
  4. Wouldn’t this be the opposite of a mmr based system?
  5. The game already runs on Microsoft’s dedicated servers.
  6. Something like diamond, but with a little more 5.