Let's talk about the The Gauntlet changes

@TC_Octus

I am hereby petitioning that TC revert the changes to the weapon lockers in the The Gauntlet hive.

Replace the ammo with weapon lockers, revert this change.

You said in the change that you were trying to ameliorate a high difficulty spike in the hive.

The lockers being changed to ammo makes the hive HARDER not easier.

The reason for this is because the ammo boxes do not restore explosive ammo, and they do not restore heavy weapon ammo.

Additionally this change reduces the viability of baird in the hive even further. (As in relation to his nerf with the salvo/trishot.) The lockers were quite effective with his card on.

Sincerely.

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Lol. I’ve tried to pretend that TC isn’t run out of a basement of someone’s house. I no longer fight that vision.

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I didn’t think the removal of the weapon lockers ever was a great idea. Now Mac has more ammo available for his Boltok? Yeah, fantastic when it comes at the expense of reloading any and all non-pistol weapons in the hive and using the lockers to allow Keegan to obtain more Torque Bow ammo in the first encounter so he can use it to help kill off the Scions(or the Stump) if needed.

And so far it seems like only one Bastion was removed throughout the hive, a single one at the first encounter. What a big difference.

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I had a feeling they were not going to include explosive ammo crates. Way to screw up again TC. Was hoping the update would make gauntlet easier. Only 1 of 4 I still need.

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FAIL…
I’m sorry thats all that comes to my Mind…

I would also like to ADD; I still dont get whats so hard about that Hive its one of my Favorites so far.

My Buddy and me even Masterd this Hive with a Guy playin without HANDS that Guy is awesome yet there is People cryin about this is to hard. C’mon man.

Lets hope they bring the Lockers back. :man_facepalming::man_facepalming:

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They did include Explosive Ammo Box, But the one time I went through Gauntlet with a friend, we only came across one Explosive Ammo Box while there’s 5+ Blue Ammo Boxes.

On topic,

I thought the changes would make Gauntlet on Master easier. I plan on trying it soon and give my thoughts. No Baird or his Global Overclock. The original way was doing Mac + Keegan and some random 3rd. And that combo should become easier now, from what I expect. The most common complaints and problems to me seemed to be Mac running out of Boltok ammo and the Blue Ammo Boxes should solve that. Whenever I did Keegan, I didn’t use the Lockers much. So this is pretty advantageous to me if I was to play one of the two characters.

The addition of Blue Ammo Boxes made it so that Keegan is no longer necessary for Mac’s Boltok and other weapons’ bullets like Claw, Longshot, Markza, Enforcer, Shotguns… etc. Now, no-Keegan runs could be possible on Master because the Resupply wouldn’t be necessary for ammo. Can you still beat this with Baird? Of course you can. He still has the Precision Bleed going for him. My matches had me running away from Lockers, especially when there’s Venom pressure. Or running ahead to kill some enemies, run back to grab weapons off Locker. There’s instances where someone forgets and it gets left behind in lethal Venom. Ain’t nobody got time for that. Picking up Ammo Box and go is more practical when on the move.

If they wanted an even better solution, then how about Lockers + Ammo Boxes together? Or that would make it too easy. But it would be loads of ammo. On side note, does Keegan’s Resupply even work with Tri-Shot? I don’t think it does, even though it’s bullets.

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I tho k the changes are fine. Mac finally gets access to more ammo, which is great. There’s a red ammo box in the second room and Keegan’s venom resupply can mitigate some of the changes.

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It’s definitely easier if you have a good mac and the right cards (venom resupply and venom boost) for Keegan.

Managed to do a public master run first go with 2 randoms and then carry through a noob friend who’s been trying to complete it for a couple of months.

No revert needed.

Here’s the thing. Mac should never be running out of boltok ammo in the old gauntlet anyways.

24 shots to start the hive- restore near 30+ if keegan is setup right per ult, he hits it 2-3 times throughout the hive.
Let’s assume a conservative estimate of 84 shots total through the hive. The boltok should ONLY be used on the bastions. If people are running out it is because they are wasting bullets on the trash mobs in the hallways/battle rooms (The trash mobs on the ramp entries to the battle rooms should be handled by the third wheel to keegan/mac, which should be emile or lahni, and they can handle the imagos/juvies with ease, or use a claw to clear them if not confident in melee’ing them), shooting the scions, or missing the bastions with the boltok. They need to improve, not have more ammo available in the hive for one characters pistol as opposed to the ability to recharge explosive weapons and heavy weapons on the lockers. Additionally the lockers put out far FAR more ammo than the crates for regular guns as well.

Additionally, if mac gets a torque bow, he should be using that, as it is easy to fill to 10 shots with keegans ult and the right cards- which in combination with the venom damage boost card on make, can basically 2 shot scions, and bastions with head shots, and one shot anything else in the hive save the warden.

I say, learn to play better, don’t nerf the ammo economy of the hive to facilitate a single characters PISTOL.

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And how about no-Keegan runs? He shouldn’t be necessary.

When there is Venom pressure, the Lockers are not reliable. With or without Baird. And when the lethal Venom is quite close, especially on the 3rd Scions encounter when Warden turns up too.

I would say learn to play better and not need Keegan or Baird for every Gauntlet run.

I would argue no keegan runs were FAR FAR FAR easier with the lockers, since they provide way more ammo than the crates ever could, especially if you bring a baird.

the venom pressure is part of the mode, of course thats a factor, so its a risk-reward scenario- the better/faster you perform at killing each room, the more ammo you have.

This translates into a naturally flowing momentum, but that has been destroyed with the replacement of ammo boxes. Now, you get a set, limited, arguably much tinier boost of ammo, and the only character that is benefitting is mac, and only for his pistol, which you shouldn’t be running out of anyways.

The only point i could see here is trying to use the boltok the whole run without keegan, which is sort of the synergy those two have. The point of keegan mac in the run is to keep the boltok going.

If you want to do no keegan, mac+ 2 others, I would argue being able to fill a torque + other weapon on lockers was far more effective for bastion /scion killing via mac than filling his boltok with a limited amount of ammo from the boxes, as well as the potential of heavy weapons with more ammo which in the venom with mac are extremely effective.

There is also another point where especially in the first encounter, the Locker may get destroyed by Scions. There goes your Locker, especially when it’s in a bad spot or someone hides behind it that the Scions destroys the Locker. Or when the Scion goes near a Locker, it may turn its attention to destroy that Locker.

It’s not only Mac that could benefit from Ammo Boxes. Baird with Longshot and Markza with Ult ready for Precision Bleed. He could pick up Ammo Box for those Sniper bullets too.

Without Lockers, Baird no longer has to spend one of his card on Global Overclock. He could choose another more useful card. Such as Score Boost, Inspired Sniping, Heavy Resistance or Experimental Weapons for Overkill / Shock Grenade Damage.

Yes, but as I pointed out the lockers offer more ammo than the boxes.

The boxes are large boxes, so 2 clips worth in most cases, yet the lockers were able to fill half or more of a guns ammo if you made good time through each room- and if you didn’t, at least the amount the boxes are currently filling.

I suppose a middle ground solution would be to revert 1 of the ammo boxes of each room back to a locker, and leave 1 ammo box. That way there is a best of both worlds scenario- the capability to fill weapons/explosive weapons/heavy weapons with ammo based on a time-reward momentum based equation, and the flat restore of a box.

In any case, the lockers were easier than the ammo boxes imo, and I think I have made a strong case for this.

They should at least replace the boxes with 1 locker per room, if not revert it fully.

The 1 bastion in the first room is the big change that mattered, now the entry to the hive is not so tight, and I think they did the same for the third room, though I am not confident of that. I may be off there.

In any case, the loss of the second bastion in room 1 was enough of a change, changing the lockers was not necessary, and as I’ve argued, makes the hive harder for a variety of strategies as well as removing the reward incentive for fast completion.

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The Ammo Box could also be more useful if you’re * running back *. Like, imagine this, after the first encounter with Scions or Stump. Ahead is some Drone-like enemies but let’s say they were Hunters. When you kill them, you can pick up their Markza and run back to grab the Ammo Box. But that’s assuming no one picks up the Ammo Boxes. It would be likely the area may be covering in lethal Venom. So there wouldn’t be time to place Markza on Locker but can grab Ammo Box.

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Yes bring back at least one locker. Keegan is worthless after his 1 torque shot. The ammo boxes put all the pressure on a Mac and he can’t take out both scions very easily by himself.

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If Mac can’t take out both scions with all those ammo boxes… They’re not ready to play at master difficulty. Simple as that.
Or maybe use some teamwork. Mac take out dropshot / salvo scion first. Keegan can finish off second scion.
I’ve beat Gauntlet on master over 40 times now, mostly as Keegan. Now it’s actually fun to play as other characters, like Mac. Plus, too many clueless random players took cover near lockers, putting the team in an impossible situation.

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I actually played with you in the gauntlet yesterday. You were a Mac. Yes it can be done with ammo boxes but my point is that all the pressure is on Mac. Did you have fun doing most of the work during that first encounter?

I don’t remember how that match went, but I don’t care if I’m doing most of the work in the first encounter. If there’s an Emile to melee, Lahni in venom, or Lizzie with ultimate ready, I just hope they know how to play their role and any contribution is appreciated.

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Exactly, as a Mac player myself I take FULL responsibility for doing the most work in the first room, 2 bastions and maybe a scion, as long as everyone is contributing to their characters full potential then I’m down to support their choice.

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Here’s a quick run I did today.

First time playing with random teammates with zero communication. Helps to have good cooperative players who play to their character’s strengths.