Let's talk about Maps and Map Design

Whenever retro maps pop up in the map rotation it’s almost guaranteed that you will be playing on one of those maps. I think that speaks to the horrible design of current new maps. Personally I enjoy the older maps over the new ones. Not for nostalgia or anything like that I just feel that are better suited for gears gameplay. The new maps seems like they tried to take gears in a different direction which is not well recieved. I’ve always said that the new maps seemed to be revolved around lancer play which is an awful design . Whether or not you like the gnasher, maps should be made in such a way to promote many playstyles instead of one playstyle being the main focus. What do all of you think?

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I also prefer the maps from previous gears games. I’ve yet to see one map that was made after gears 3 that can even hold a candle to the gears 1>3 maps.

That’s not just nostalgia either. The ones they brought back to 4 were more fun to play on than any of the TC/splash damage maps.

No offense to anyone involved. The new maps all look nice, but aren’t fun to play on for the most part.

I’d rather play bullet marsh than any original gears 4 or 5 map. That’s saying something

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Thank you, yeah I dont want to bash the devs with this nor take away the work that was put in but a conversation and input like yours being respectful can really create a healthy dialogue in future direction of the map design. I’d like to see a variety and not maps that enhance the usage of one sole weapon.

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Healthy dialogue? In these forums?

You must be a madman.

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Hey we can try cant we? Lol

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Well, you’re claiming that people pick G4 maps over G5 maps because of “better map design” bit I’d claim that’s because it’s something else outside of the very small map rotation.

Also remember that each map is made according to their respective games’ mechanics and weapons. Cover heavy, claustrophobic Canals may be best suited for the slower, heavier, Vault-less Gears 1 mechanics since it was made for it.

That aside, I think there are several G5 maps that work very well, 2 of my favorites being Asylum and Vasgar.
Asylum’s height advantages aren’t totally dominant with several means of flanking the sniper, and the railroad’s deceptive openness fluctuates in a spot that isn’t vital to flank. It’s hard to be totally pinned down on this map.

Vasgar supports long range combat while providing plenty of cover to charge in for gnasher duels. The only open spot being the middle with the Mace and the risk of being sniped in getting it. You can choose to flank the sides or jump in the pit which can lead to tide turners in deathmatches.

That’s not to say there aren’t some rough ones like Bunker. I will say that a lot of Gears 4 and 5 maps suffer from “3 lane syndrome”.

Edit: The railroad’s risk is in the fight for a power weapon, not for dominating the game.

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OK, that is a valid point and could be the case with some and I agree, I also like asylum and vasgar. However those maps specifically offer options in combat. I just feel out of the 7 that were released they were more lancer promoting than any other sort of combat. Games as a result have become very campy. Now there are some weapon issues which make people hesitant but from past gears ot makes for some really bland games . I use tac-com a lot and there is always teams spread out hiding they dont even pop out to fire until after you die. Weapon tuning is important but equally important is map design. Maps control the flow of the game. Older maps seem to promote a better flow to me. Reclaimed Dam and even foundation provide a plethora of options for combat.

District has become a camp fest used to like that map slot.

Ice bound is camp the middle.

Bunker is camp the high ground

Asylum is OK in my book lancer opportunities, gnasher opportunities and power weapon opportunities for effective combat.

Vasgar same deal

Training grounds is OK at times until people camp sides

Exhibit is not bad, I just wish the map was a little bigger it takes no time at all to make your way to the other side and sometimes that even becomes campy.

I am aware these are opinions and some with disagree but I am more Interested in fast combat with map design that forces encounters. Sitting across the map shooting at each other is not fun or waiting for someone to come around a corner. There is just too much of that I’m which the current maps allow.

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I feel like icebound is the worse for lancer play maybe exhibit too. But rest are nice to me.

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Just spent an hour or so on UE, not absolutely great fun as I have to play on USA servers to have a chance of getting a game, but

The maps are sublime :slight_smile:

Boneyard and haven on J are good maps

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The Lancer promotion I think is the result of the maps being more open that the first 2 gears games. But I say the best maps are the ones that don’t restrict the players’ playstyle in any game type, be it Lancer camping or getting Gnashty as you mentioned with Reclaimed and such.

Edit: Reclaimed can suffer from the same campiness as Mercy, which are pretty similar in design.

An example of maps that do that I’d say would be maps like Bunker and Training Grounds. They’re best for KOTH where the point of focus changes through the game, but in Deathmatches they boil down to fighting for power weapons and then dominate at the highest point and camp for most of the round.

Really, which modes? I mainly play TDM and KOTH and I usually see Lancer standoffs in the middle and Markza/Boltok areas.

Funny, I normally see people camp above in the crow’s nests. Indoor middle tends to get raided in my experience.

Yeah it’s like a more open version Canals, Upper middle section suffers the same Lancer supressing squad as District but thankfully the long range stuff helps. I agree the lower levels feels oddly long but awesome for CQC stuff.

I’m kinda the same way, map sizes like District and Asylum fit just right for me because I like to provide Lancer support and Gnasher duel than I do sniping and long range bombing.

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Yea Icebound promotes campy lancer play unfortunately. Just keep shooting ice from above until someone decides to flank.

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It will be interesting to see if the map builder for horde/versus maps is robust enough to create maps on par with what TC is creating. Probably not but…

I think we could see popular community made maps even make it into the quickplay playlists to supplement the amount of maps between operation seasons if it has good discovery and is popular enough.

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I’d say temper your expectations on that, they did say it was a beta and having a map builder for the first time in Gears might be barebones.

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icebound could have the towers without cover and the catwalk with a cover to encourage movement.

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To me, it only makes sense to design maps that work well for multiple playstyles. While I don’t agree with having huge towers with one flanking route, support play still needs to be viable.

Support fire has been big since gears 2, but some of these maps have too little cover to maneuver without a full team supporting you at all times.

I’m happy to see more maps in rotation, no matter if they’re new or old, just to keep the current lack of variety from becoming stale.

Going forward, I’d like to see a little less verticality, more thoughtful weapon placements, and no buildings that outright encourage camping.

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If we do get legacy maps, I hope that the weapon placements are thoughtful to spice them up. A dropshot in Mansion would be interesting to fend off attackers from the bottom of the stairs for example.

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First question, how do you do quotes like that? I have no idea how to do that lol.

2nd om district it’s not consistent but I mostly play team death match like you said the the middle and the markza and boltok areas for sure but now in a lot games it stretching to the walls near grenades and the planters around spawn areas some games it’s a complete mess. There are many places to cross lancer fire wherever you are on the map and people depending on the team camp those areas. You can usually tell.when you are playing against a team who is talking on that map.

Those towers on ice bound are cancer but in the rounds where the mulcher spawns people camp middle and can shoot the mulcher out ward if they keep thier back to the wall and then you can have 2 additional people with you equipped with lancers have two flak.the towers and shoot from them it’s a mess no matter what area you move to. It’s just too open.

I am glad this thread has taken place there has been some good talk about maps and some good ideas on how existing maps could have been set up. Just like any meta in shooting games if one weapon is the go to that’s a problem and same holds true if a map has one playstyle in mind you are limiting game play which is not good. Obviously some thought needs to be given to the items on the map by design for example GL lancer on a map with a low ceiling would be fairly useless as it woild crash into the ceiling so I understand that something like that would obviously need to accommodate that. But breaking off areas for certian styles of play is good for the flow of the game.

I remember when TC was talking about one map on gears 4, I honestly forget the map name (damn it’s been awhile lol) but they specifically talked about areas of combat and those areas were designed to accommodate certain playstyles in the areas. Like that sort of thinking needs to translate to all maps. I feel like it would add variety and excitement into the game. Right now a lot of games just feel stale. There will always be camping in games no matter what game it is but these stand stills team wide are brutal.

the map design is to promote a different style of play.

i personally don’t like any of the new maps.

TC defends them saying that they are not meant for lancering but i dont buy that at all.

we can all see every map has areas where you literally cannot move.

The point about maps being tailored to their respective games is a good one. It’s why I never fully enjoy the retro maps unless they are obviously compatible with the new game. Like security in GoW2 is probably my favorite map/game combo ever. But in gears 4 security was frustrating because it was so hard to move around the map without getting lancered. That didn’t happen in gears 2 because the lancers weren’t nearly as powerful. People keep asking for River but without some major fundamental changes it will be awful. It will be so so easy to pin teams coming out of spawn if that map was in Gears 5. You’d absolutely have to run through the grenade houses and into the vehicle lot to have any chance or reaching combat and you’d just run into the entire enemy team camping you with lancers. So that dynamic would need a complete redesign.

I also call for the bigger maps from Gears 2 as my preferred retro maps because I think they would work well in this game. Memorial and Allfathers Garden are my favorites. Maybe Highway too but that one might be TOO big. But even as I say that I’m not sure Memorial has enough cover given how open it is to be fun in this game. Allfathers Garden though I think would be amazing. Good size, lots of open lanes to fire through, but enough corners and walls to promote cover based close quarter combat.

So…let me hear some love for Allfathers Garden!

To each his own but I personally love all the new maps, not only do they look better on the X compared to Gears 4, but I like their designs and they all seem distinct and different enough from one another. I want more new maps of the same quality level.

I don’t like playing on the old maps as much, feels like I’m playing Gears 4 again…the Gears 5 maps, to me, seem to be overall superior in quality. If they add more maps from Gears 4, I hope they beef them up a little more so they feel like they belong in Gears 5.