Ideas for PvE Classes for non PvE characters

I’ve been pondering some new PVE class concepts for GOW6 lately. One idea i had is…:

VANGUARD

My idea is an execution-based tank class who buffs their own defence and attack stats through executions and also buff team mates within a certain range - see below. It would have a skill card which gives the player increases in damage output for 20 seconds for every execution performed (with a maximum cap - maybe 200%) so a bit like Blade Dancer or Bullet Chain.

There would also be a separate card which provides team mates with a damage buff within a certain distance (maybe 15 in game metres); and maybe another card which provides the player and team mates a damage resistance buff per execution (again, there will be a maximum cap - maybe 50% or something).

My thinking around this idea is to create another class who can operate in the field rather stay in the base in a defensive manner. I’ve always enjoyed using the Nomad’s execution build in a support role in tandem with an Infiltrator or melee class. This idea could synergise well with them as they provide team buffs.

The percentages could be adjusted. This is just a broad idea. Ideally GOW6 PVE does a general maximum damage resistance cap across the board so that players can never exceed a certain 100% and become invincible.

I haven’t thought about an ultimate ability. Maybe a Frenzy ability which gives you 30% movement speed for x-seconds and a one-button-press-execute ability for the duration so you can run around stab things?

EDIT:
Thinking about it, Gears: Tactics has a Vanguard class (Sid’s class) and I think some ideas can be taken from it as well as Tactics more generally too. Looking at my ideas above there is a bit of an element of that with the execution orientation. In Tactics there are skills which reward executions by giving you extra Action Points for example.

A card which provides the Retro Lancer with bleed effects could work well (just like in Tactics). Maybe it kicks in only after perfect reloads are achieved? This could be the Vanguard’s primary weapon.

3 Likes

Right now I have 2 ideas for classes, a new one and a redesign of an existing one, I won’t be so detailed with perks or with a large list of skill cards because I need more ideas but I have a good description of what I would like in these two so i’m going to start

  • TURRET MASTER/TURRET EXPERT

(maybe it’s not the best name, I didn’t think about it too much and gunner is already taken)

This class is closely linked to wanting stationary turrets back, I think that although they are not very popular they were a good addition and I would find a class that can deal a large amount of damage interesting with the disadvantage of being in a still position and not being able to dodge efficiently

I haven’t thought much about cards of the class too much nor do I have any ideas for the ult, maybe giving cards with damage resistance and explosives can help since the class would be more prone to tank damage than to dodge it, probably the cards that gave more health, more ammunition and more damage to the turret in gears 4 heavy class would be naturally assimilated by this class

something I have a good idea about would be the main weapons of this class, I have 3 types of turrets in mind, or well 3 evolutionary families for the turrets:

The first and simplest to explain is the Twin-barrel turret / Gears 4 Turret family, it would only be to return the weapon and its variants to be used by the class, what would differentiate it from the others is that in gears 4 the weapon is It felt somewhat slow when shooting but in compensation its projectiles felt very strong, being the slowest but strongest family of the 3 families, in gears 5 it became faster and shooting felt lighter, which I liked but the version of 4 would be better, and would have its 4 levels:

~ lvl 1

~ lvl 2

~ lvl 3

~ lvl 4

the second family would be the Troika family, although here there is a change with respect to the Gears 3 version, the change is that the first 2 multi-turret levels are replaced by the COG Chain Gun, this is because in the classic COG games Chain Gun and Troika worked almost exactly the same, so due to the operation it would be logical to have this turret in the first 2 levels

I know it sounds a bit meaningless to put this weapon as a predecessor of the troika if the troika worked almost the same as this weapon, but I consider that the troika should undergo a small modification, the troika had a detail which was that it did not really use its 2 cannons when firing, the weapon fired only one bullet line in all the games in which we can use it, so the modification would be to make it shoot 2 bullets lines instead of one, doubling the firepower of the Chain Guns.

then the levels of this family would be

~ lvl 1 - Chain Gun Base

~ lvl 2 - Armored Chain Gun (+ health and stamina)

~ lvl 3 - Troika Base (Double Damage than Chain Gun/2 bullets lines)

~ lvl 4 - Armored Troika (+ health and stamina)

the third family would be the multi-turrets family, it would be made up of a retro turret on the first level, a lancer turret on the second level

I don’t have so many ideas for the third level, there are only 2 other turrets that I know of that could occupy this level but I don’t they convince me so much

one of them is Hammerburst Turret which appears in Gears 3 Campaign mounted in gas barges but we can’t use it, I’m not convinced because I don’t see such a big difference between it and Lancer turret, although they are different as individual weapons like turret I don’t see a big difference in operation and damage that both could have and would favor the lancer turret over the hammerburst turret.

The other turret only appears in concept art from Gears 3, it’s a Gnasher Turret, and I think it’s obvious that it wouldn’t be that good in practice because gnasher is effective at close ranges and one of these turrets isn’t that good and it’s kind of risky at those distances then it is obvious that this one is not.

A third option is to make multi-turrets that have not appeared in Gears 3 with different and new weapons, a Claw Turret would be great

level 4 would already be a boomshot turret, the one that was mounted on the gas barges

Those would be the differences and characteristics of the 3 families of turrets, being a static class the different weapons that it will have available will be what gives the class variety, and although they are somewhat different in their base mods, those differences can be accentuated With the use of special cards for each weapon, giving each turret its own effect, and making the class play differently depending on which turret is used, it occurred to me to perhaps give the Troika a bleed card to make it work similarly to Pilot’s Mulcher, a Twin-barrel that freezes enemies or does something else to them or some specific cards for retro turret, lancer turret and boomshot turret

  • PROTECTOR

I came up with a new design for the Protector class that gives it a very different gameplay from the one it currently has, although it is more focused on horde because in Escape it may not be as good or its advantages might not be as exploitable in escape

I stuck to the name of the class to determine the style it would have, it would focus on using the Boomshield to defend, attack individually, take and block damage. His ult would be the same although I think it should be allowed to shoot outwards inside the shield, I know that the halo one doesn’t work like that but the class is no longer tied to emile and the shield would work better by not hindering both his own and the rest of the team’s shots team, even if they can’t use the halo shield skin anymore they can use a simpler skin for it like jack’s in tactics, and should also keep the Drop Shield Duration card since it is directly linked to the ult

For this class I can think of some skill cards, i have not named them but I can describe them:

~ A card that allows boomshields to be put on the ground without them disappearing, does not mean that they are immovable since they can be kicked as they could be done before, but the idea is that if nobody throws or removes them, they remain on the ground for several waves, since in the classic games, the shields placed on the ground disappeared at the end of the count for the start of the waves and we had to take it and wait to put them back, thanks to this we could place up to 5 shields on the ground without them leaving, helping to block shots or small enemies

~ A card that allows you to use any weapon while wielding a boomshield or with a meatshield, all weapons except heavy weapons and melee weapons (Breaker Mace, Butcher Cleaver, Chainsaw Bayonet), recalling a famous glitch from Gears 2 and a feature of Judgment and bringing them back for this class, expanding the number of weapons it can use and not limiting it to just use pistols (Anchor is the expert on that)



~ Linked to the above, general boost cards for each weapon class, something like assault rifles damage buff (lancer, hammy, retro, claw), close range weapons damage buff (gnashy, overkill, scorcher, enforcer), precision weapons damage buff (longshot, markza, embar, torque bow), explosive weapons damage buff (boomshot, dropshot, GL), pistols damage buff (snub, talon, boltok),etc

~ A card that when equipped, transforms each boomshield we take into an Elite Boomshield, which allows you to bounce and redirect shots received, shares reticle with the equipped weapon, so you can shoot and redirect shots at the same time and to the same target. The shield will redirect most direct shots including salvo and boomshots, though certain weapons such as dropshots or grenades slipped underfoot should escape the reflection of the shield.

Maybe it should also have some resistance against melee weapons, with some indicator of shield stamina, projectiles shouldn’t wear down the shield, but strikes from a warden or charges from matriarch should lower the health of the shield until it breaks with the enough hits

~ Take back the Thick Skin card from Gears 4, because I don’t think it’s so funny that a scion boomshot shoots you and when it hits you, limit your options to:

a) you die and lose the shield
b) you fall and if you are revived you are forced to drop the shield because you fell somewhere far away or in a rush to get back to base

due to the fact that the movement is not very agile with the shield, the card could help give you a chance to do something against these enemies that knock you down or kill you instantly, also this does not only apply to boomshot scion, dropshot scion should be just as dangerous or more considering that dropshot ignores shield reflection

~ Keep the Regenerating Field card, this is a card from the original protector, and it has good synergy with the use of the shield, since the shield prevents you from receiving damage at least frontally, which helps the stim to regenerate without interruptions, it would also be additional protection against any Elite Drone or any enemy that shoots ballistic weapons from any side, because Thick Skin only protects from explosions

This redesign would give protector a unique way to play and gives the class more identity in horde, as the current protector doesn’t really stand out at all in horde, his melee is overshadowed by those of Striker and BM, his Gnasher pales in comparison to that of Infiltrator and even the Markza that it carries does not compare to those of Marksman and Nomad, it only shines for the shield, and here I was in charge of finding ways to exploit that. I don’t know how viable these changes would make to the class in escape though, I didn’t think so much and if it doesn’t get Bloody Blade back it might not even have the same performance, but Idk I haven’t played escape with protector in a while so maybe I’m wrong

Would the turrets be full-on fortifications or as they are now as an ultimate ability?

If it’s as a fortification then it could be very limited in a secondary PVE mode depending on what it involves. It wouldn’t work in Escape as you can’t build. It may ne that a Turret Master style class has skills that cover other angles and buff other weapons etc.

I’m not a fan of turrets to be honest. I’d only support them returning if there was a way of controlling their numbers. Perhaps only one could be built at any one time. But this would prevent 2 or more people playing as that class, or at least it would bar enough turrets from being built.

1 Like

I say No to turrets. Sorry but not a fan of them since gears 4.

Id say the only way Turrets would be acceptable is if theyre on maps that had them anyways like Glory or War Machine.

Turret campers in 4 were the worst imo. Not just a super easy target for Deadeyes, Boomshots, Hunters and Dropshots - most players displayed horrid situational awareness trying to use the turret or positioned it in an overly exposed location - but also super boring, and after TC nerfed them and pushed their price up, they became extreme resource hogs as well.

At that point I would only ever build one if a player requested one(not that I was happy about it), or as a contingency measure if a flyer went into an annoying spot where it wasn’t easy to hit with a Dropshot because it went right up under a roof.

It was basically like the Salvo spam but without the completely obnoxious screen shake. Required about as much skill too - I stopped playing with both fairly quickly and resorted to the Dropshot instead, potentially contributing to it eventually emerging as the meta, but those are claims I don’t and can’t have any solid data backing up so it’s conjecture at best.

Broadly I’d agree. My worry is that having turrets back will lead to established metas in Horde which centre around turrets, being defensive and passive, and it will undo alot of the good work in creating fun classes and gameplay loops which involve fighting outside of the base.

There is the argument that TC should give players the tools and leave it to the players to decide how they want to play, but I’d be happy with they completely left out turrets ala GOW4 altogether.

I’d be fine if turrets returned in their current form - as a time-limited ultimate ability for a particular class. Or if there was a workable way to limit the number of turrets that can be built (limited to one at any one time).

Even then, the class would ideally need further expansion so that it had more gameplay loops attached to it. Having it as part of the Mechanic’s class is fine as the class has more roles beyond just firing the turret.

To play devil’s advocate, what is the point of doing more damage for a class that will mostly be bypassing damage with one hit kills? (I’d love to see how many people get use out of Demo’s Bullet Boost for similar reasons of it optimizing patterns that aren’t really a focus of the class.)

One thing I hope is done in Gears 6 is having less rigid classes so I can mix-and-match playstyles better. But random other card (or perk or passive) ideas for your execution-oriented class:

  • Bang For Your Buck - Stronger flashbangs, or ones that leave an ongoing disrupting area-of-effect for a while.
  • Agent Of Chaos - Smoke grenades provide you a damage or resistance boost while in their area-of-effect.
  • Hard Hitter - The ability to melee-combo-stun Scions. Maybe the Ultimate you proposed also allows executing them when stunned.
  • Peek-a-boo - Cloak/Jack-like invisibility after n seconds if you’re in cover and not moving or shooting.
  • Walk This Way - Walk n % faster when carrying a meatshield.

Not necessarily. This Vanguard class won’t have the benefit of creating a safe zone like a Nomad would with Fear/Faze so the opportunity to follow up with another execution on the next enemy will be no different than any other class.

I mentioned in my edit that like Tactic’s version of the Vanguard, that there could be a card that gives the Retro bleed effects so these damage buffs will apply to that.

Also the unique selling point is to give team mates within range these same buffs (or half the amount - whatever it is for the purpose of balance). Some classes obviously won’t gain much as they will have uber damage anyway. I’m thinking of the Marksman (or whatever the equivalent will be in GOW6) but it would be a versatile buff for all classes. It could make other classes more viable in a more mobile roaming role. There are already similar team buffing things in PVE right now like the Anchor’s Harness Energy, the Combat Medic’s passive of faster health regeneration within 10 metres, Gunner’s Team Resist and Heavy Deflect etc. I think adding damage buff team skills is a natural development.

Basically this Vanguard idea’s gameplay loop isnt going to be a total execution class. It will involve conventional fighting once you have this buff using whatever weapon you want. I’d want it to be versatile. I guess thats why I suggested the team mate buffing abilities too. I was partly inspired by the Nomad being able to use weapons in conjunction with a Fear-execution build, like having Armored Shot or Gnasher Mastery and using it to shoot and bleed retreating enemies after an execution (especially non-executionable enemies like Pouncers and heavies).

I just want flashbangs that work consistently.

insert gif with flash at Mulcher/Boomshot Scion’s feet that doesn’t stun it here

1 Like

Flashes and Enemy audio are the 2 biggest things that need to be fixed for the next game, imo.

1 Like

Suppose it comes under “Enemy Audio” but the damn FRAG audio needs special attention to get it back to being useful instead of causing confusion.

I don’t have the same immediate allergic reaction to turrets as others here… as Bleeding Pepper also noted, I think having another playstyle available doesn’t inherently preclude today’s playstyles. With corrective effort from TC and the community we’ve shown it is possible we can largely move beyond past undesirable metas like “JD is absolutely required for Masters runs”-- if the will is there.

But thinking out loud about turrets (and a mashup with flashbangs), one design idea that might mitigate the complaint about them hindering out-of-base roamers would be a stun turret (sort of like those experimental non-lethal microwave nausea inducers that actually exist) where enemies you target are effectively flashbanged and easy prey for CQC out in the field. You can’t kill them by yourself, you’re making a gameplay loop with at least one other teammate.

For balancing, the stun effect presumably wouldn’t persist if you stopped firing or aimed elsewhere (a la Hammer of Dawn), so you’d have to hold the target until it was handled. Also maybe cards/higher level turrets could slightly increase the duration they stayed concussed after the beam ended, though probably not very long-- something close to the near-useless low level Slugger gold card durations. There’d also be a weapon overheat limit to add risk, though maybe perks/cards/higher turret levels could also reduce that limit or the cooldown.

Other possible turret ideas that might avoid the “everyone sits in turrets and kills from afar” concern are:

  • a Scorcher turret - limited range
  • enemy-specific turrets - an electro turret only seriously damages DeeBee enemies, an incendiary turret that’s weak except on Lambent, a Venom turret for Swarm, etc.
  • some sort of wind/pusher, net, or sticky entrapment turret - doesn’t damage targeted enemies, just slows them like barriers
  • a healing turret - does nothing to enemies; instead it’s like a long range Jack healing beam
  • a harpoon turret - decent damage (and upgradable to multi-harpoon shots), but slow to fire and adds risk (or intentional fun) if the hooked enemy isn’t killed before/while reeling the spears back in to fire again