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Icy Precision is anticlimactic

So, Fahz’s legendary card is icy precision… 50% damage to frozen or partially frozen targets. How legendary. Especially with all the great teamwork going on in horde matches. People are just so eager to pick up a cryo cannon and freeze the enemies for other people. You gotta be kidding us. This is a common level card labeled as a legendary. His ultimate ability needs automatic headshot as well, because it just makes it difficult to make out where the head is from the solid purple color that it turns the enemies. Either that or the duration needs to be extended by a lot. How is a controller aimer going to efficiently be able to guide his analog stick under those conditions? Fahz needs to be reworked, seriously. Headshots are not doing enough damage at higher difficulties. In Gears 4 you could consistently pop heads on hardcore with one shot thanks to magic bullet. I’m using a mouse and Fahz still gets ineffective quite quickly into the match on harder difficulties. It’s gimped.


Horde is so boring with such useless characters and skills. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but horde was more fun in Gears 4…


Without a doubt. I’m honestly having a hard time trying to enjoy this new horde. Duplicate character restriction and locking classes to specific characters just doesn’t do it for me.


Most horde skills are anticlimactic. I really am at a loss for words with how they went 10 steps back.


Although it’s unfortunate that my friend and I both can’t play Sniper, that’s not a dealbreaker for me. The dealbreaker is just how weak the characters are. Literally every enemy feels like a bullet sponge, even Juvies. I play horde to just destroy bots, not run out of ammo shooting a drone in the head 4 times with a longshot before he’s dead.


Exactly! I agree. How the hell are we supposed to land 4 headshots on one helmeted drone when you pop out of cover for 1 second and your entire screen turns red or you are downed instantly? If their goal was to make people see red they have succeeded in two different ways. On screen and real life. It’s not supposed to be easy at high difficulties, yeah, but I’d appreciate not feeling like a sitting duck. I have Marcus at a high level and it’s pretty similar as well.


You wanna use that dude on high difficulty? Throw the explosive headshot card on, grab tri shot, run wall hack ultimate, enjoy. It’s really cheesey but it works.

Dude needs a bleed card, bad. Tie it to the embar or something.

Fahz is incredibly boring to use at high difficulties. Shooting the drone 5 times and it regens health, ughhhhh.

The cards in 4 were alot better imo. Horde in 5 has everything I never ran. Cloak? I’ll take dodge all day from 4. The perks make it weird too. Kait can put down the whole wave pretty much on insane with the overkill and bleed. Why?

Cause she has a bleed card…


Fahz generally, seems quite weak compared to some of the other classes. Often it takes multiple headshots to actually kill even Drone-sized enemies, and his ammo capacity is woeful.

I really hope TC adjust Fahz in a future update. Maybe add an extra passive skill of 50% extra headshot damage and improve the max ammo capacity.


He doesn’t need auto headshots for X-Ray, how X-ray currently works you can do more damage with body shots depending on how you use your shots. Depending on how the shot pierces it’ll hit the target multiple times whether intended or not it can cause Pouncers to die in a single Embar round with a non-headshot on Master difficulty. If you don’t like the Purple of X-ray you can wait for Paduk he’ll undoubtedly be a sniper and should have a different ultimate. Marcus’ ultimate hits the head more often if you aim to miss the target and frequently can snap to targets you don’t want to shoot at, it’s part of using his Ultimate just like the purple coloring is part of Fahz’s Ultimate and it doesn’t cause problems for everybody just because you find it difficult it simply may not be the character for you. As for the duration, I’d argue at best Critical Parade needs to be looked at in terms of effectiveness. Comparing it to Rifle Feedback on Marcus where Marcus can keep his going for literally every single bullet he has on hand versus Fahz not being able to keep his up for much longer than his base duration due to reloads or charge times depending on the weapon you’re using is a bit one sided, but extending the base duration by “a lot” as you put it would be a bit overkill considering the type of damage Fahz is able to generate while remaining safe compared to somebody like Marcus who even blind-firing can still be shot during his. Nobody else’s damage magically improves as the difficulty goes up either and some characters like Marcus can’t headshot with their card boosted weapons unlike Fahz. Fahz also gets proficiency with the Embar which can gib at any range to play clean-up on any downed enemies from a distance which isn’t the most glamorous role, but it’s helpful to the team. It may not be the role people want Fahz to have coming from the overpowered Sniper in Gears 4, but it’s a role he’s quite good at all the same. On lower difficulties he one shots pretty much everything with Ambush and his Longshot and like JD he can maintain a constant rotation with a Weapon’s Locker easily enough and his damage drop off is no worse than Marcus moving up the difficulties, but at least Fahz can do a weapon switch method to kill easily enough with his Boltok or Markza something Marcus has to rely on his Snub for out of his starting loadout. He also packs more punch in a single bullet and you can line up your shots from behind cover reducing the time he is exposed to be far far less than Marcus trying to achieve the same levels of damage where he’d have to stay exposed for literally nearly a full magazine of his Lancer and that’s with the double magazine size on top of damage and assumes they’re not too far away where his Lancer damage starts falling off and Fahz’s Damage doesn’t have any drop off whatsoever.

No he doesn’t. Bleed is already borderline overpowered and considering every time I see you posting about Horde it’s about Fahz it’s a product of just wanting to be overpowered and that’s what Bleed would do.

It doesn’t take 5 headshots to kill a drone unless you’re using the Markza and you can rotate Longshots if you really want to like JD rotates Lancer GL to Grenade spam. Marcus can empty whole clips into a drone to simply down them with cards boosting his assault rifles. It has nothing to do with some imaginary belief that Fahz has it any worse than the others and if you use Ambush he can one shot drones on Master with his Longshot until they get 2x health.

Any character can do a full wave on Insane especially without 2x health and 2x lethality which you can leave both off and still hit Insane easy enough then Fahz can one shot almost anything with his Longshot on that version of Insane or even without the 2x health on Inconceivable he doesn’t need a bleed card that lets him one shot anything no matter what from any range just because you want an overpowered character.

He has that in Ambush it caps out to be 50% extra damage letting him hit for over 9k on a active with his Longshot and his Markza hits for about 1400 on an Active as is with Ambush and he doesn’t have any other cards with it. As for Ammo Capacity a Fahz can rotate Longshot and Embar on a level 4 locker constantly shoot and always have some ammo or like JD with Lancer GL spam he can use 2 slots and have 2 Longshots and use them exclusively, the ammo capacity is fine and his damage is fine.

My vote for Icy Precision is to change it to a slow effect for X duration on a Crit with Precision Rifles which would include things like Bastions so he can make them a bit easier for teams to pin down, that way they can still call it Icy Precision and some people who view Fahz as a Bastion removal via X-Ray would find use it in it. They could also attach a delay to regen effect with the slow effect to make him better for the Regen modifier without making him overpowered on all the low difficulties

I disagree. Bleed please

Btw the game is broke again with not dropping xp or cards or anything. So who cares.


You disagree on the basis you want to introduce broken mechanics and by saying “who cares” just shows that you’d rather add problems rather than actually fix them and precisely why somebody who cares about improving the game shouldn’t listen to your desire to blindly just make an overpowered character.

People have different views man, it’s called the internert. I’m not playing a game that doesn’t work either. Good luck with that.

How is it broken? I get that it seems OP for JD since he can tear through bosses way too quickly, and has AoE damage on pretty much all the weapons that suit his playstyle best(explosives). But Kait’s damage is mostly single target focused unless enemies are grouped up closely enough for Overkill or Gnasher spread to hit two at a time. So I don’t see why hers would be OP, certainly not nearly on the same level as JD. No matter what you do, if your skills are at a high enough level or maxed out the starter or most lower difficulties will become trivially easy, if you want them to remain relevant in high or end game difficulties.

And TC seems to have a track record of overnerfing things(Mac’s bleed damage was severely reduced in October’s update and just feels like they took a step too far with it if you consider how much health enemies on higher difficulties have), so I’d rather they keep their fingers off the nerf nuke button.


How is it not broken? JD can melt pretty much everything in the game largely because he does thousands upon thousands of damage. Kait does obscene amounts of damage especially on the low difficulty where she can run around with impunity, just look at the levels of DPS she can actually achieve and I never said they were on the same level. With Fahz even the lowest bleed on an Active Longshot would increase damage by 5400 damage when the initial bullet does 9000. The answer isn’t to trivialize the easy difficulties further by adding skills specifically for the 1% that plays Master the answer is to adjust the scaling so the balance remains for the low difficulties increasing the difficulty still increases the difficulty of the match, but doesn’t cause problems with the balance of the low difficulties. Bleed in general is just a slippery slope. The thread is about Fahz and thus not getting overpowered mechanics not nerfing Fahz, though on the subject of nerfs JD needs to be seriously looked out to maintain a balanced game. Effectively infinite Grenades with Launcher Capacity while using Bleed is gamebreaking the point is just because there are already issues with characters that’s no reason to introduce more mechanics that trivialize playing the actual game if they’re going to that they should just put and instant win button on the menu. “Would you like to play Horde or simply win automatically? Play/Win” then the people who just have the who cares mentality can press the instant win button as many times as they like complaining how the game is too easy or how they have no more rewards to unlock and winning doesn’t feel rewarding to them at all even on the higher difficulties which let’s see there are already dozens of threads complaining about that very same thing. Either they finished the tour of duty early and want more right now or how there isn’t enough to unlock and they should be given free stuff because they want free stuff or how balance doesn’t matter at all in coop modes because everybody loves being able to literally do nothing as JD can kill everything by himself so you can beat Master with effectively 3 people. Engineer for the initial fortifications, Jack for power farming, and JD for killing everything the other 2 are just there to look like they’re contributing maybe revive JD should he go down. The answer isn’t to make everybody JD the answer is to achieve some sort of balance for all the characters for all the modes. Introducing something that knowingly would create more overpowered scenarios because screw balance isn’t just an opinion of whether you like how a character feels or not it’s whether it ruins the balance of the whole game or adds problems rather than solving them for your own reasons versus the sake of the game. Needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few vs Needs of the few outweighing the needs of the many and if you introduce mechanics for your own selfish reasons without thinking about the balance of the whole you’re wanting the needs of the few to outweigh the needs of the many.

Well, let’s say you cut bleed damage from both Kait and JD in half(even though most of her damage comes from bleeding enemies and the damage bonus delivered by Blood Resonance). How good would it then still be? Useful on lower difficulties but potentially not very good on higher or end game difficulties. Plus, Kait’s Shotguns already require closer range than that of other weapons which exposes her to a greater risk than other characters to be more effective so I’d consider it a tradeoff.

Admittedly, most of my Kait skills are Level 2 or 3 as far as Rares and Epics go, and I’ve never gone above Advanced, but her damage potential so far hasn’t come across as OP to me. It didn’t just let me brainlessly empty my weapons anywhere in the general direction or let me stand out in the open to get shot at and come out alive - but this may in part be due to the fact that I haven’t really unlocked modifiers which would allow me to not have extra health and damage for difficulty increases(only beaten Advanced on Vasgar yet, which I don’t know for sure which modifiers that unlocked). But in face of the enemies on that difficulty, I didn’t find her damage potential to be OP or broken because I still had to make sure I actually went about things intelligently instead of just blazing away at everything. There’s at least some element of precise aim and, if using an Overkill, trigger discipline required. Not like JD who can hit any boss, even the Matriarch, anywhere for a ton of damage.

Plus, I’m glad they have made Scout a more viable combat role this time around, instead of it just being Pac-Man for most of the match and shotguns no longer viable on Hardcore and up at a certain point.


Agree mate. I don’t remember any of us asking for a Hero-shooter.

I’m sure there is a quote from RF telling us that Gears is all about choice.

…so who decided on this abomination of Horde, where you have less choice than you did back in 2008.


In all truth… a well played fahz might be the most overpowered character out there.

Especially when you’ve got a trishot and Marcus next to you. Their synergy is insane.

Ive completed multiple masters with a fahz in it who more than pulled his weight

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I feel the same way fun character but most useless skill to be called legendary. Kaits seems equally as pointless on anything above advanced.

The bleed damage for each character ticks 3 times for the listed amount of Damage, JD’s starts at 20% that’s an increase in 60% damage with the added bonus of being over time which keeps enemies from regenerating should that mod be on as a double ended bonus of damage and utility. Kait is in the similar vein as her bleed vastly improves her damage then ontop of that Blood Resonance compounds not only the initial impact but increase the subsequent bleed ticks. JD can easily get by without his Bleed though since it’s in the game it’s intentionally handicapping yourself to do so in the current state, but his brokenness comes from the infinite loop of Lancer GL spam more so than bleed. Kait does have a trade off which in other threads concerning passing out bleed I’ve mentioned helps keep her somewhat in-line on the harder difficulties where it limits her ability to use her skills to the fullest even though on easy difficulties she kills pretty much everything in a matter of seconds heck she can 1v1 a Swarmak easy enough on the low difficulties dealing enough damage from her Overkill to kill it before she runs out of ammo while popping the blisters to keep a stun loop going.

If you’ve never gone above Advanced then Fahz should still one shot everything unless you’re playing Advanced with Increased Lethality and Increased Health since not all Advanced difficulties are created equal. Increased Health and Increased Lethality create an artificial difficulty where enemies achieve bullet sponge status far more quickly. Insane without these two modifiers will see most faring far since they lack the bullet sponge status by default it’s Inconceivable and Master where you have to make a concession whether you want to be exposed longer or kill quicker I’d say Increased Health is the greater of the evils and causes the majority of the problems especially when combined with Regen Penalty making it take longer to be able to pop back out the ability to kill far quicker outweighs the extra damage enemies can pose on you.

Compare Kait’s damage to somebody like Marcus, Marcus doesn’t have any Fancy bleed skills and he’s rifle focused so each bullet doesn’t do a lot of damage at all. He gets Custom Lancer +50% damage and +100% Clip Size, Kait at level 1 Bleed already gets more bonus damage than Marcus’ Custom Lancer card when maxed out and to deal that damage Kait pretty much just needs to land a single shot Marcus needs to land bullet after bullet after bullet to down a drone that has increased health and Kait can also gib whereas the regular Lancer cannot. The Overkill can be used at mid-range well enough that you might as well call it about equal range since the Lancer’s damage starts to drop off heavily and should an enemy take cover even nicking them with the Overkill or Gnasher will keep them from regenerating from a time whereas with Marcus they can fully heal and he has to start all over again. Now circle back to Fahz who doesn’t have any damage drop off and deals a hefty amount of damage at any range he eliminates Kait’s close range issues and his guns do arguably comparable damage if not more at range with the lowest bleed in the game his Longshot can hit an enemy for 15,000 damage that only increases as you increase the Bleed’s level which using JD’s value for Bleed again level one is 20% so a net of 60% more damage and level two is 30% so a net of 90% more damage one level on that card then turns 15,000 dammage 17,100 damage a difference of 2,100 damage for a single duplicate of card. Now bleed won’t kill on execution rules unless you’re close to them, but it will kill things that don’t go down like Scions, Bastions, Bosses etc and that’s a large chunk of damage that he could deliver at any range he so pleased and thus the balancing ruining of simply giving Fahz Bleed without regard what that would do to the game, you would now have a sniper that could kill anything in one shot without Execution rules at any range.

I haven’t played Fahz or seen him played much but an active Longshot with no other damage bonuses will still pop an Elite Drone’s head on Advanced with the health modifier active after wave 40.
And I wasn’t the one saying anything about Fahz’ bleeding damage. But it kinda speaks for itself on Advanced with Survivor, Health and Damage modifiers that if you don’t at least have a Kait your life will be a lot harder. I often find myself doing most of the damage to say, a Matriarch since she can only be hurt from the back.

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