No I haven’t actually. You mean to say that a maxed Lizzie is a stand in for JD with the same ability to carpetbomb to melt bosses and grunts alike? I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve been in a match with a maxed Lizzie, but it’s possible I would be of the opinion that she needs an adjustment also.
As stated earlier, I take issue with the whole thing of meta teams, I appreciate there are different roles but all characters should be a viable option and I won’t hesitate to call for reining in gimmicks if they make a character too strong.
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My Lizzie is only lvl 13. Still working towards cold finish. What makes her powerful at max lvl? I’ve mostly been doing the same thing I do with other non meta chars. Spam tri shots then use my ult. Currently using the mulcher and tri cause those are the only real weapons I have for the silverback.
The Silverback every wave is what makes her powerful. Salvo + Tri-Shot or Mulcher. Literally a walking tank, mow down enemies outside the base area. A bit more freedom to move around, get some kills. Cold Finish also makes it easier to kill them when they are 25% HP or less.
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Just to jump back into this…
For the record, I don’t mind this Horde on the lower dif levels… Not at all. Yes, the Hero system is annoying BUT on lower diff levels, it’s not really all that bad…
I’ve done solo runs with Del on beginner / intermediate, and it was a lot of fun (with bots, etc)…
I play in a team of 4 with 1 bot on advanced, and we tried elite once too, and it was all right. Harder, but fine…
I’m purely talking about the higher/highest levels, where you are basically cowering behind cover and forced to use the Trishot and ultimates, since nothing else works fast enough to let you kill anything before they down/kill you…
I play as the CoG a lot, and with +80% Lancer and Lancer GL, I have a lot of fun on lower/intermediate levels… Then I switch to +30% Claw…
Ok, that sounds like fun, I will work on upgrading / leveling her up… I LOVE her voice lines, hahaha…
Thanks. It helps when those with experience jump in.
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So being OP is fun now? What about everyone else? Who will they kill? 
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How do you achieve silverback every wave? Does it involve sisters till the end? I heard it was bugged so it kicks in all the time and not what the description says. That seems to be a reoccurring thing for TC.
Sisters to the End and upgrading the Cooldown Perk. Killing helps reduce Cooldown too.
ty
Learning how impotent most of the characters are and the joy of staying in cover for two hours.
Why do I even bother trying to argue with you? You just disregard anything I say with statements like yours above because we have differences in opinions. Somehow writing them off as if I’m trying to “give advice” when I’m not at all. You think spamming a grenade which it is very easy to hit enemies with is skillful and fun, by all means, enjoy it. But it’s just horrendously boring to me and a reason why I don’t play JD much any longer(people have complained about me not filling entire lockers with the Lancer, believe it or not). People just expect you to use the GL as your primary weapon. And outside of the Boomshot the others really aren’t that effective either, not really leaving you much of a choice in that regard either. But whatever. Just gonna leave this here because you insist on following me into any thread to tell me the same things about Horde over and over again when if I had the opportunity to do something on it myself yet I would have jumped on it. Having 99% of players mandatorily demanding a JD as part of any lobby does not help this at all.
Except that 5s Horde isn’t balanced around this kind of way of playing. It would be more tedious than fun. Going for achievements in Gears 4 requiring you to beat Hardcore with no forts and Insane with no power spent whatsoever were already not that great to be playing. In a similar way, I do not expect trying that sort of thing in the Horde for 5 would work very well either. Not to mention that if you did build forts their costs are likely balanced around having Jack and a Forge so their numbers will also be strictly limited as well.
So yes, you technically could do it, but is it really going to work well or be much fun?
So you CAN play the game with balanced characters.!?!?
Wow. Just wow.
And you are right, 99.9% choose not to do so.
99% of lobbies have a JD or other power character.
I just keep showing you where your writing more posts than anyone else currently on the forums concerning nerfing a character and calling it more balanced is not healthy for the game.
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Ive had an unlucky Matriarch get in the base during like wave 10. The JD was either bad or afk. Thing is she got in, smashed the weapons locker containing his GLs. We have no Kait, no heavy weapons yet and Im broke because I just upgraded something prior. This is on masters so regen is on. We ran out of ammo. We had to stop shooting her till ammo came back or die+respawn in order to have enough rounds to kill her. Between the scarce ammo, no bleed and the jumping around it took forever. Needless to say it was a long ■■■ match and was not fun.
As for the argument you could do horde without cards, yeah you could. You could also learn play with one arm tied behind your back but why would you? It won’t make you a better player or give you a challenge. Just frustration.
Didn’t I kind of admit this a while ago already? Either there is a serious case of selective memory going on or you just conveniently ignored me mentioning that I understood it was doable to complete matches without a JD on at least Elite and Insane(and I have done so) but due to the way enemies are balanced right now can make it far more tedious than necessary on certain occasions if you did it on Incon or Master, due to points already mentioned often enough.
And besides this, I mentioned several times that there should not be any “balancing” done(which, knowing TC, would likely be nerfs anyway) if they do not change the enemies either, unless it involved making the less powerful characters more powerful. So I would appreciate to stop being accused of only ever asking for unconditional nerfs. We even went over this in a separate thread on a similar subject.
Huh? No, the rifle cards make the cog viable, not OP…
Ohh, you mean the silverback? Sure, it’s fun to be OP for 30 seconds every few waves 
Here is the crux of the rancor aimed against you and others espousing similar views as yours by a few members of the community, namely myself.
I apologize for the rancor by the way. I’m going to try to engage with your purely with opinion and not emotion from now on.
The fact of the matter is- it doesn’t have to be, if you do the right things to counter the spongy enemies, and instant downs.
In fact, I can show you how to make entire waves invalid.
It involves heavy usage of barriers, and intelligent/informed uses of decoys.
You must open yourself to the idea that your approach is wrong.
In horde, you generally need to create 2 things, a base, and an area of operation.
These are not the same thing, however they are built off of each other.
The area of operation can be considered to be the “safe zone” which you have created on the map, and the base can be considered to be the zone which at all costs you don’t want an enemy to enter. This is traditionally where you have your most valuable fortifications like the lockers or forge, and where people expect to be able to afk if needed, be safe, take on the boss during boss wave, etc.
If you merely explored how to increase the area of operation, you would find that there are tools at our disposal in the mode that allow us to hard counter the quick downs, and spongy enemies.
For instance. My preferred strategy is heavy shock sentries, and lvl 1 barriers.
Why? Because if you keep all the enemies in barriers/shock line of sight, they are incapacitated/slow to react nearly all of the time with enough/strategic placement of these forts.
There are other methods, but I like this one because spikes are very low risk.
Everything you put on the field is a risk-reward gamble. lvl 1 barriers offer in my opinion and mathematical figuration the best cost-risk ratio.
Even if a matriarch barrels through your spike field, those spikes are very cheap to replace, and repair. Even moreso with bairds precision repair now.
I would venture as far as to say this is the meta.
You see amicable, there are other players besides myself who have discovered, practiced, and seen success in countering the issues you constantly bring up as problems with the mode. Those of us at that point in taking on the sandbox that is horde 4.0 simply don’t want to see the beautiful dance between risking money on the field, and gaining ground for your area of operation to be destroyed due to the uninformed opinions that are being echoed here by those who haven’t figured out the dance…
That’s all it is mate… You simply haven’t figured it out.
I can show you, I really can. It’s not as hard as you think, you just aren’t using the tools in front of you how you need to in order to take on the job effectively man! Seriously, you don’t hammer a nail with a fork right?
So stop trying to kill enemies in the open with the base guns, you need power weapons to do that, and a good area of operation supporting a strong base to do it safely or with basic weapons.
Please, consider that you may not be approaching the issue correctly, and that solutions that do work very well to counter those issues are already built into the game. I promise you they are.
Try a run where you litter the field outside the base with slow barriers. to the tune of 20-50% of the map depending on the map/size of it.
You will quickly discover that the AI is vastly nerfed, probably such as you think it should be, when it is stuck in slow barrier patches.
They react slower, turn slower, get stuck in animations leaving them open, etc.
It’s quite a different experience than trying to assail enemies in the open with no fortifications affecting them!
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For the record I am enjoying horde 4.0 more than any other, and I was in love with 2.0 for over a decade.
I found enjoyment in it by identifying the various highly exaggerated traits of the enemies, and discovering hard counters to that via base expansion, card setups, and teamwork strategies.
It is a beautiful game mode with an INCREDIBLY high skill ceiling.
I sincerely hope you guys look through the pale of one shots, and tanky enemies, to find the valid strategies that hard counter these attributes.
You will find a much more enjoyable horde experience when you discover these things.
I also hope this horde 4.0 does not change. I love the way it is. It’s great, really, I’m still improving 4 months in and I can’t stop loving it!
More please tc, please make it harder, more difficulties. Pllllleeeeaaassseee
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You can use the silverback every wave, and it’s much longer than 30 seconds once you acquire a high level salvo card!
Lizzie is nearly as good as kait or jd, and shes not even a scout/offense, shes a tank!!!
He doesn’t play Engineer.
Does he not play with coordinated teammates? He could ask these things of his engineer surely…
I’m not sure what other advice to offer if he isn’t getting in coordinated groups.
These enemy attributes are seemingly implemented to counter exactly this- uncoordinated groups…