Ive seen those crews but only 2 in the same room. Ive yet to see a room that had no engineers and was made of fahz, Marcus, sarah, lahni, emile.
Im not saying these chars have no place in masters but the way tc designed horde is poor. You shouldnt need specific classes to win but tc made it so.
Supposing a JD has not already atomised her within 15 seconds of spawning, a Cryo Cannon or 2 will counter a Matriarch very hard.
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Done several runs without a Kait, to the point that I don’t think she’s a MUST in a Master’s composition. I’ve also done one without a Jack, such as yourself.
Haven’t tried the new chars though, as I don’t play the game much anymore, so can’t really give my input on characters like Baird and Lizzie.
Yes I still prefer a Jack and an engineer! For sure! Playing Jack is ludicrously boring for me, but I love the freedom he grants us.
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Yeah Im bored playing as Jack but it feels good to have someone as jack.
Ive completed some masters with the odd group but we usually had 2-3 of the 4 classes I mentioned.
Ive had a party of del, jd, fahz, marcus, cog. That cleared 50 waves but we had JD doing most of the dmg.
Ive cleared masters with no JD but Kait ect.
Ive yet to clear masters without an engineer. Or a noJD and no kait. ive cleared with 1 or the other but not without both of them.
Yeah, unless you’re JD or Del or maybe Kait, your sole purpose is to hide and pick up those three when they go down. That isn’t fun. There’s nothing fun at all about dumping all your ammo into countless bullet sponges then dying because you want to participate in the combat.
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They have a lot of stuff that isn’t working as intended. Until they get patched I can’t give a fair assessment of them.
I can say Baird is a pretty good engineer. Even if you take out the bleeding fences. He repairs faster but doesn’t have cost reduction like Del. His forts have less health but with precision repair he can repair all of them throughout a wave, for free, provided he can get head shot kills. His turrets hit harder. His lockers reload faster than dels. His turret and locker perks are also global so they work no matter who built them. He also gets some nice boosts to dmg when using a tri shot. He just has no stim which is what kills him IMO.
Lizzie has some usefulness with the silverback. She perhaps has the best stim in the game. Generates stim by dealing dmg. The closest thing we have to an actual tank. Outside of the silverback she’s pretty much all the other non meta chars. using a tri shot.
Seems the fun is still going while I’ve been away.
Right! This is exactly my point! Horde of Tri-shot
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JD has zero health perks. I’ve said this many times before. Anyone that says it’s easy to play JD on Master’s level hasn’t played it. Even Kait with her health upgraded goes down instantly on higher levels. Some characters do not possess the ability to inflict massive damage at that level, but going down easily is every character’s plight.
I doubt that there would be as many complaints about JD(if there are many at all) if it wasn’t for pretty much every mid-higher level lobby imposing the “fun police” JD. Whether that is down to the enemy sponge or that not allowing restarts is a mandatory requirement or something almost everybody enables on difficulties below Master, I cannot say. But it’s a fact that 90% of played matches have JD even when he may not be required(why would you need him if you have basically turned on all the easy modifiers? I’ve beaten Insane with the health mod without a JD so it’s not impossible). Trying to find one without a JD or get one going yourself? Very unlikely to happen. Seemingly lower player count than in the launch week/month also doesn’t help.
If I recall correctly you have called for JD nerfs.
My only stance is buff other players. I’m tired of people being down on JD. Play him or don’t, but leave him alone. He’s fun to play. OP himself has said that. He’s not the only option. I’ve pointed out that both Baird (currently) and Kait can out perform him. Lizzie can a lot of the time. The game needs some buffs for other characters and it will be fine. I find several non meta characters fine to play.
I still recall the great salvo nerf of Gears 4. Made the weapon worthless.
To everyone that wants to play a certain meta not available now, please ask for it. Leave other metas alone.
Edit: I can play with or without a JD. He certainly always helps if leveled. I’ll never begrudge any character for performing to ability level.
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I would only want JD nerfed if they rebalanced the enemies as well, not an unconditional nerf while not touching how absurd the enemies are. But if they don’t they should leave him alone as well. And if they were to nerf anything it should still remain a viable option. Not a “12%” nerf that was more like cutting the damage of the Salvo in half, or more, and rendering it almost completely useless. It’s not even that great in 5s Horde either. If they never change the enemies, then never touch JD. It’s simple. I view it from a more practical standpoint - if enemies were to sponge less and dish out less damage, do you really want/need such extreme damage to be put out?
I mainly play Kait and Lizzie, so I know what they are capable of(though unless my judgement is completely off, it’s Lizzie’s Stim skill that makes it so, seeing as Cold Finish is just helpful for finishing low health enemies off). I have JD leveled as well but don’t find him that interesting to play, nor is it exactly a lot of fun to play alongside one spamming the entire map with grenades. So I would rather not have the character in a match at all but far too many players seem to just want to rely on him for one reason or another. Which I don’t really understand - if all you have on is Survivor, Regen Penalty, Execution Rules and Regeneration, and/or Power Drain, why would you need or want a JD? It’s not like enemies do that much damage or sponge that much fire that a Keegan or any other character would not suffice.
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Totally agree. I have found Keegan really enjoyable to play as of late. Man he needs a little more ammo though.
That is true. Having only 3 Boomshot rounds or 4 Dropshot rounds is rather underwhelming. Why would they have lowered the ammo of those weapons to such a degree anyway? It’s not like it’d do any harm for them to have more base ammo, if anything it’d perhaps make them more viable alongside the GL as an explosive weapon, in Horde anyway. Especially since someone thought removing one shot capabilities on the smaller enemies for the Dropshot was a good idea. The weapons seem fine in Escape without additional ammo, but in Horde they don’t feel great without it. Torque Bow is still somewhat decent as a weapon though. Even when headshots don’t one shot kill Scions or DR-1s any longer. And it has bleed for Keegan if you hit the body instead of the head.
Something I’m curious about though… why is it that the Boomshot doesn’t seem to do any damage to the Matriarch unless you hit the weakspot with it, but the Torque Bow can hit in the armor-like skin or a Dropshot can do damage through both splash an direct hits? Not really seeing the logic there.
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That’s an interesting point. As much as I’ve played, I don’t gravitate towards the torque. I had no idea the torque did. I’ll have to play around some with the torque. The dropshot has become as useless as the enforcer. Jack, smelt please.
I don’t see many people use the Torque Bow, but it’s still somewhat decent as a weapon. Useful for hitting that Matriarch with to stop it from regenerating if you can’t hit its back, and you have no other weapons that can hurt it from anywhere available. Still does decent damage as a headshot weapon overall, in particular against Drone size enemies, not sure on bleed since I have not used it much with anyone but JD whose Razor Hail has been Level 1 ever since I unlocked it and that’s with multiple Elite, Insane and Inconceivable runs with him.
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Lol. I feel like TC has the rng rigged with razor hail. Ok me a lot of scrap to level it. Probably the rarest drop in the game. You have me very curious about using a torque.
I was just reflecting my own experience with it. Just give it a shot(pun not intended) and see if you like it. But it doesn’t one shot headshot kill some enemies any longer. It seems to stick to Guardian/Sentinel shields now though, instead of exploding on impact. However, Torque headshots won’t cause bleed if you have explosive bleed. Only hits on the body of an enemy will, unless you’re playing Baird of course. Assuming the Torque counts as a precision weapon. It’s also not the easiest weapon to come by, not knowing any character who can buy it and as it is only used by Elite Hunters in the Leech waves.
TC throwing an RNG block on Razor Hail totally wouldn’t surprise me considering that you can already wreck a boss on Incon with it at Level 1, even if the health mod is turned on.
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I’ll put some rounds through one tomorrow. No doubt I’ll report back.