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How is anyone enjoying Horde on higher diff levels? This is just stupid... and not fun

Hmm… I don’t know… I have to admit the Torque wasn’t one of my main weapons in GoW4, I preferred the Drop… I used it as scout a lot, if I’m running around and I had to deal with a pouncer… I know you could headshot a Pouncer with a drop (even as scout), you’d get the headshot sound, I’m pretty sure that killed it… But don’t know about the Torque…

I’ll be honest, my memory on that is also completely failing me, also having been a Dropshot main in Gears 4 , mostly using the Torque Bow for very long range work. Know a Longshot, EMBAR and Boltok or Markza were capable of Pouncer headshots, though.

Still haven’t sat down for your reply, but it seems like you and omen would particularly enjoy elite difficulty games with specifically the extra health, regen, and extra damage mods off.

No more spongy, instant downs, and the enemies don’t need to be constantly tapped to keep from full health!

To unlock these mods you just need to go to wave 50 on each map and beat the right-most mod you have unlocked. This will unlock the next mod, these can be done with all the other mods to the left of it left off, and it will still unlock the next mod. Good way to unlock master for each weekly hive as well.

On a note of power weapon headshots- I do agree. For the first time, that these could use buffs.

Traditionally in horde these weapons have offered massive damage boosts from their headshots, and it would be nice to see that maintained. (Although- as a caveat to that- fahz chutani still offers these capabilities. Quite effectively. - however these weapons specifically should be this strong universally with headshots. Perhaps not to the degree of one shotting, because incon/master are obviously meant to push the difficulty ceiling of horde higher than it has been before- but still higher than they are now.

I’ve actually got most or all the mods unlocked for the non-Gears 4 maps. I occasionally try Insane or Elite, though I find if the health mod is off enemies die too easily. It is sometimes fun but given how difficulty is created in the current Horde(and me not being a fan of ultra short down times) having the health mod on is kind of what I’d have to go for. Sometimes I do want somewhat of a challenge. Playing Insane with a Del, Jack, Keegan, Lizzie and Kait with Health, Regen Penalty, Survivor, Execution Rules and Regeneration on Allfathers Arena certainly was an experience. Especially when Matriarchs marched in on 10/30 respectively. If I always wanted an easy experience I certainly wouldn’t have stuck around there, or sometimes feel like trying higher difficulty settings for a challenge.

I see.

Well, try having the regen off instead of the power mod.

the power mod really isnt that bad, and the regen mod is arguably the hardest of the lot.

I don’t really mind regen much. It’s mostly a nuisance if there’s Guardians or Sentinels buzzing around or when you’re trying to kill the Matriarch without someone having bleed(not counting Lizzie with the Mulcher since not everyone will use that weapon on the Silverback and the Matriarch will charge for the machine if not frozen and instantly take it out, assuming the Mulcher doesn’t or no one else staggers her), your Keegan doesn’t realize the Boomshot for some reason won’t harm it if it doesn’t hit the weak point while the Torque Bow and Dropshot will hurt it anywhere. Should you not have any GLs at your disposal.

Regarding a previous or different point you made in another thread(I believe) about Gears 4 - it wasn’t all speedruns which didn’t take much effort or skill(they were horribly boring so I never got into them a lot and quickly got tired out of or stopped with them). Plenty of matches were to be found on the matchmaking queues(skill of randoms varied but you could find decent players on there for Hardcore - Inconceivable). Some LFG posts were also made for Sentry free runs and what not, but those were harder to find. I related some experiences of the mode in 4 in my large post above. I spent most of my time in regular matches from Hardcore to Inconceivable, but I was able to level my skills up well enough with Scrap obtained from duplicates and whatnot. The biggest deal was trying to unlock skills with the RNG drops, which is to me one of the main improvements 5 made to the mode, not requiring RNG to unlock a skill. Otherwise it may have had less enemy variety, but fortifications were mostly the same besides the presence of the manned turret and different ways in how the enemies interacted with some of them(as in, explosive Trackers could wreck them very quickly if you weren’t careful, something that is much less present in Gears 5 Horde, or how they worked(destroyed forts gave you back power instead of there being a yellow outline to rebuild them from, so you had to buy a new one to replace it, and if you didn’t have any spare Level 2s or 1s left upon their destruction and the fabricator was Level 2 or 3, no more Level 1/2 barriers for you, so if a stray Swarmak rocket came into the core of your base and struck a stack of Level 2 replacement barriers, well, you weren’t getting those back, which was a great deal of annoyance to me when it happened so I often separated the stack into various smaller ones to reduce the risk of losing them all because of such a thing), and 5s forts generally seem tougher. Well, except for when they get hit by a Boomshot which totally wrecks everything, seemingly, and Sentries in particular.

yeah, my friends (the ones I still play with are the ‘need sentries’ crowd from GoW4, not the ‘decoys and lockers only’ crowd :slight_smile: ) and I unlocked all of the daamge modifiers on all fathers, and last night we started working on training grounds… We finish with extra health and extra lethal (those are tough, I find), next time we’ll do ironman, and then work on the higher ones…

yeah, i hadn’t realized until recently the modifiers were unlocked PER MAP :slight_smile:

Question: if we just jump into wave 50, and finish that, would THAT unlock/complete the damage modifier(s) we select? Or do we need all 50 waves for that?

wait, what?? Torque and drop will hurt the Matriarch regardless where they hit?

I’ve fired Torque Bows straight into the Matriarch’s skin for damage. I do not know if it does full damage, but certainly some. Dropshot damages the Matriarch both on direct hit and if it splashes. But nothing like that for the Boomshot, mysteriously. Still, useful to keep in mind if you have one to stop it from regenerating if it jumps away with the weakspot not facing you or being at a hard to hit angle. Just need to make sure your Jack doesn’t get overzealous and burns all the Torque Bows before you can get to one. Some are so… enthusiastic, let’s say, about their job that they will melt down nearly every available weapon with little regards to whether someone wants to pick ‘em up for ammo or just to have ‘em.

It absolutely will. I unlocked most of the modifiers for the Gears 5 launch maps and Allfathers Arena that way. Though, really, I always seem to have trouble finding teammates for lobbies I host. I kind of don’t like Training Grounds or Exhibit, the latter mostly because I find it so easy and boring to play on despite liking how it looks and the museum exhibits which are interesting. Training Grounds just feels too long ranged and most engis barely ever build the base far outside the spawn to not have to contest with the extremely long sight lines that most of the map presents. A Fahz or JD probably loves that, but me, not so much when I use Kait and Lizzie for the most part. And as much as I like Allfathers Arena I do not want to play it all of the time, yet it feels like if I was to not host my own lobby, which I previously mentioned hardly ever seems to work, I would be playing it, and Exhibit which I do not want to really play much if at all, in about 90% of my matches, since I really do not want to be playing Gears 4s maps again after already spending over a year and a half on them.

haha, we play without a Jack (there are only 4 of us - I did the jack thing for several runs, then got bored and decided I want to actually participate, not be an errand boy :slight_smile:). But since I’m still support, I do the COG thing, and use team revive a lot, with team repair to help Del.

good to know! I think next time we get together we’ll do a number of 50-only runs to unlock all modifiers and then pick and choose…

I think Asylum is the only one I haven’t played Horde on yet (from the “new” maps)… I hear it’s a good one…

It’s good enough as a map, though I have only done spawn setups on it, one of which was a Master match where I did all 50 waves as Kait. It works well enough, but I personally prefer District in one of the spawns.

I did district just outside of the spawn, in the area where the talon pistol spawns, in koth… I was shocked to see the matriarch run right THROUGH the walls, haha…

That has never occurred to me. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Matriarch could actually smash through walls though.

Regarding Jack, I wouldn’t find him interesting either. They basically took the worst aspect from the Gears 4 Scout, isolated it and slapped it on Jack with the Forge for extra power gains, while giving him a largely ineffective zapping beam and a healing beam to revive players with if necessary. I don’t complain about it though, because it frees Scouts up to have a proper offensive role instead of being a workhorse for the team, but it still makes someone be stuck with a chore for two or more hours, which is never a great thing in a game in my view.

Jack is not just a glorified scout bro.

Jack is literally the COG Bastion.

He is the hard counter to most things in horde.

Keep the beam on 1 person through a wall or from a safe spot, and they can tank the wave. Only ice scions pose a threat as they will still cause their freeze and subsequent death to tags.

Well, yeah. I usually do not mention that when saying this because it’s not the seemingly main intended role of Jack but he is pretty good at it. Healing Reach and Speed basically make anyone invincible. But I don’t run into many Jacks who do this, whether it is out of lack of knowledge because you can be made practically invincible or because they use some other build, I don’t really know.

On the topic of Ice Scions, anyone else make the experience that Stim seems to get rid of and prevent freezing rather effectively? I’ve pretty much stood in a freezing beam at point blank range with Lizzie but her Stim ability basically kept removing anything put on me by one Scion while I was hitting it with a Talon. It may just be her who is capable of doing so but I still thought it was interesting since usually getting caught at point blank range by an Ice Scion is a death sentence if you can’t find some cover to get between it and yourself quickly.

How do you figure it isn’t the main role?

It’s literally his main role… he has a card for it, and the enemies have their own bastions lol

By the way the healing speed card isn’t for the speed at which you heal others, it’s the speed at which jack regens health. So, with the card and the perk, you can top out at 150%, making jack nearly invulnerable to ranged fire, aside from things that one shot him.

Yes stim seems to counter ice well. I’ve noticed as del with the incredible stim feedback he has that I nearly never get frozen standing in front of them.

Also fortifications and decoys completely block their freeze.

I just assumed Jack’s primary intended role was for the Forge, not that it makes him any more interesting to play as. Different views, I guess. I certainly see far less players cover a perma beam healing role with Jack than they do the Forge.

And if the Healing Speed skill isn’t affecting the healing beam, what skill is it then that causes it to either heal a player extremely slowly or very quickly? I don’t recall all of the ones he’s got.

It’s 100% his main role.

He’s our bastion, the COG bastion lol.
I know most don’t do it, but some players even at low reups have it figured out, I was with a reup 6 jack the other day that outplayed 99.9% of jacks I have ever played with!!!

He followed me in stealth, beamed me before I went down when it seemed necesary, forged in between, and dove out to revive me if we were seperated. I was able to run around as kait and make mince meat of that run due to him!!!

It works even better camping in base/a strong position than running around.

Kait/jack were designed to run around the field together from a developer standpoint imo.

The way I look at horde, and well, most games, is as a puzzle where the pieces all fit together (Assuming it is a well built/balanced game), and in gears 5 the pieces fit together just… oh so flushly… I am very impressed with their balancing work. So you see why Im at such odds with opinions otherwise yes?

There is no card that controls the speed of the beams heal. It is a base speed that doesn’t change.

People have misinterpreted the healing rate card to be a healing beam speed card, when instead it is jacks self regen speed. It even shows jack glowing on the card :slight_smile:

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If only they all thought that. Kait with a Jack permabeaming her is so much more fun to play. If it’s not the skill that affects the healing rate, is it a perk Jack has? Because I could swear some
Jacks on Incon or Master took ages for me to go back to full health, other times it took barely a second for the omen to disappear completely. I never checked those Jack perks out properly when I did his Assists medal in Operation 1 but believe he has a repair speed perk or something in that direction? It might explain why the beam sometimes seems to heal slower, other times much faster, if it was intended to work for both forts and humans, or it’s glitched. Hijack can turn him into a true Bastion though, by “borrowing” one from the Swarm. Or a killing machine if you snag a Mulcher Scion or DR-1 Oppressor.

Unfortunately, the puzzle that is to be assembled here has problems with the first hurdle of any online game/shooter, randoms, which for the most part inexplicably seem to have lost their ability to adapt to changes and try learning new things, of which there were at least a couple during Gears 4. You could tell when people had a clue of what they were doing and how things worked well together on the higher difficulties because the run would likely go perfectly smoothly, bar some incidents that may not have been possible to avoid(such as a single frag or Boomshot causing a wipe because it just landed when you were all close enough together to be caught in the blast, which is very unlucky but can happen). Hardly seeing much of that in 5 where players either abandoned Horde or everyone somehow forgot everything from Gears 4s highest difficulties and only build very basic, simple bases, sometimes forget to provide or upgrade lockers for the team, etc. Would almost certainly be a more enjoyable experience if people learned(or didn’t forget) how to survive matches without a JD, use the fortifications in their current form most effectively, you name it. But I guess everyone’s just there for an easy match that is more a grind than anything. Sometimes I wonder why people play if all they do is grind. If it’s not fun, why do you grind to begin with?

And how does JD fit into it all? I have not identified any useful synergies there, other than that Jack’s healing beam basically helps any player do better. He is pretty much a standalone who can do everything as soon as a locker is built and upgraded. Seeming more like a “crutch”, so to speak, for the less great players or there for those who only care to have an easy match.

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It’s the Health Regeneration Penalty that makes it look like Jack healing someone slower.

Jack’s Repair Speed is for Fortifications.

JD can be standalone character for the first couple waves where Locker not needed. When Claw Drones appear on Wave 7+, JD + Jack healing beam him is very helpful for JD to stand out in open and keep the pressure on enemies. No one-shot down by Claw Drones.

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Fear not, I have the explanation. You see since the beginning of gears 5 There has been one game-breaking difficulty-nullifying bug after another. In order- Permanent ults, Red barrier glitch, infinite money dupe, and now baird bleeding barriers currently.

Couple that with the fact that the path of least resistance is to merely run engi-jack-jd-kait-extra at the dead end of several maps with little to no build variety- the ENTIRE playerbase has had the option since launch to opt out of improvement, while still clearing the hardest difficulty.

That is exactly why the player-base is inept, and it is exactly why I challenged myself, so I would not fall prey to the effects.

This too is an answer I can provide.

Ego. It gives them something to grind that they can throw in the ego bank. It’s a tiny endorphin drip they crave, even at the expense of enduring an unenjoyable activity. I have seen this time and again.