Hivebusters is even better than Gears 5 (Light SPOILERS)

So the other 34% are the failed Sanctum hive wipeout, the crazy lava river ride and going down the path of the Wakaatu?

Doesn’t work as well as I hoped.

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Quoted for truth :slight_smile:


Leeches still have a lot more mass than a bird, and they’re more explosive than a bird. So when 20+ leeches slam into a cockpit in quick succession, at high speeds, that cockpit will likely fail.

I mean… It probably wouldn’t be as catastrophic or instant as in the cutscene. In reality the Flock probably should have targeted the engines.

It WAS a rogue operation. But after it met with significant success in the comic, and the Hammer proved invaluable (another rogue operation), the COG doesn’t have any alternatives. Jinn’s got no choice now but to make the Hivebusters official, especially once Delta joins the party.

If Jinn tries to squash the Hivebusters after that much success, when she has no alternative plans, she’ll start losing what little control she has over the military. Veterans of the old COG might arrest her and install a new First Minister. The population might revolt if they find out Jinn’s tried to stop humanity’s most successful operations. Jinn needs a win, so she’ll jump on the Hivebusters and make it seem like she always supported it.

Tak’s King Raven is a heavily modified thing (different blades, and rockets in the nose). It was probably rebuilt from a defunct Raven. And as anyone from the USSR will tell you, the total collapse and reformation of a government leaves a lot of armaments unaccounted for.

As for fuel, we still don’t know what powers COG vehicles. Judging by the black exhaust, they’re likely creating their own fuel from scratch (think vegetable oil, but sci fi). They’re also using their sci fi batteries to store energy from the crazy weather, which could help explain the DBs. Nuclear power is probably used somewhere as well.

Major Donneld Mathieson and other old friends of Hoffman. All they have to do is slate a good Condor for retirement due to age and overwhelming mechanical problems, then reroute it mid-flight away from the aircraft graveyard(s). Classic USSR.

Also, Baird. Baird has all the backdoors into his own stuff.

The same way American soldiers and pilots smuggled stuff out of Afghanistan and Iraq, or any other war. See also: the collapse of the USSR.

That Lieutenant was loyal to Mathieson and Hoffman, probably had a bone to pick with Jinn, and she might’ve even been delivering official supplies to Hoffman’s retirement home.

Sheer distance. Jinn clearly wants him to go away already and have no power. So, like basically any other politician, she used a short-sighted method: put him as far away as possible, in an area deemed safe.

Plot twist: the islands are not safe, and Hoffman can use his distance from the mainland to his advantage, because he thinks long-term.


TL;DR it would seem people at TC did their homework on history and politics. Hoffman is the same imperfect old crank as ever, but he’s lost most of his remaining scruples. Meanwhile, Jinn has been written and acted as despotic and short-sighted since the very beginning. Power has clearly changed her worldview for the worst.


I hope you don’t mind reading this very lengthy response.

Let’s not forget a whole Vulture that somehow ended up crashing on the island with a full complement of DBs and a hard drive containing a message from the Major for Hoffman. Although I’m not sure where and how you would land a bird of that size on Pahanu with all the jungle growth, lest there’s an airstrip that was not shown to us.

And while Hana mentions that Vulture went down without telling us how it did(since the cockpit is not accessible in the game, at least I haven’t found any way to, there is no way to access any in-flight/black box recordings either, at least it doesn’t look as if it would be in any other location given its layout), I don’t believe it was shortly before she arrived on the island due to plant growth on it and that it has started to rust more than a little bit.

The one question on my mind, why didn’t the pilot at least try to pull down or up to make the Flock miss the cockpit? She could see the Flock vaguely illuminated by lightning beforehand and while I get that the time to react was limited and a plane can’t pull manoeuvers as abruptly as a helicopter, it wouldn’t have been impossible to survive there even if the “Flock strike” still made the plane crash. I’m not expecting dodges like Tak performed against the Wakaatu when it went after his Raven, but…

But that’s TC things I guess, since unnamed Gears, Condor pilots(the one in Ascendance also dies) and Carmines never survive them. It’s a minor detail but the pilot was definitely still alive… and screaming… when the Flock crashed through the cockpit and came out the other side in the cutscene, which then adds insult to injury to find her hanging in a tree with metal poking through chest/armor because the parachute was clearly deployed although it’s hard to tell if the force of the Flock impact or getting ripped out of the Condor did that or it was triggered manually.

Thermal power may also exist in other locations and from there fed into the main power grid. The technology clearly exists as Sanctum is powered by exactly that.

I haven’t noticed those particular details(beyond the paintjob on the nose) but doesn’t a Raven have rocket pods on its wings by default(excluding the gunship variant or whatever it’s called again)? The one Sam was flying in Gears 4 certainly did.

So here’s where I start losing the trail… of course Jinn doesn’t have the backing of every soldier and commanding officer within the military with her decisions and wants to use the DBs as the main military force against the Swarm(something the bots are so far absolutely not capable of except when supported by human soldiers to stop Leeches from taking them over or overall, if you want to go that far), but how many would support the “suicide” missions to have COG soldiers go planting bombs that combine the Wakaatu acid and New Hope toxin straight in the heart of Swarm hives after being taken by Snatchers?

I still don’t believe that many would be capable of surviving that when Scorpio has more than one close call getting back out of the hives, be it in their first failed attempt with the New Hope toxin or the following ones using the “Venom” compound/mixture(I call it that as it’s referred to as such by the characters but the bombs also have a “VNM” marking on them and appear to be labeled with the quantity within them as well).

And no, I don’t exactly count barely outrunning the Warden and Snatcher to then ride the Sanctum entry door down a lava river when the gas wasn’t working on them as a desirable outcome or anything short of a close call.

At that, Jinn basically holds the legislative powers in her hands even if there is various ministers around her. Wouldn’t surprise me if they’re mainly for show and just Jinn’s puppets. So how well would it work out for the military to attempt overthrowing and replacing the head of government? Especially when it may not be met with support from all of the military? So far, the results of the Hivebuster program are effectively top secret as well, and killing off the heart of it doesn’t wipe out the stragglers outside which is not the best result.

The question here is, why would Delta join the Hivebuster missions? Sure, they would almost definitely be showing their support to them, but especially given Kait’s relation to Swarm/Locust, I would not be sending her into the heart of a hive unless it was that of the queen, or one she was located in at the time. That’s not a risk that should be taken. (I don’t count the Escape mode as it is not canon even if I find TC could make a story based approach to hives with Scorpio as well, be it infiltrating them from outside or from the inside.)

Although I will say it, if I was within the COG military at that point I’d be having my reservations about Jinn’s leadership too given her insisting that the Hammer remains offline even when there is a clear need to keep it as an extreme option if all else fails(may be that this has changed by act 3 in the main story but I have not been able to tell that for sure). Heck, if the Sanctum bunker was wiped clean of all Swarm and the toxic substance dissipated, I would even be considering if that wasn’t an option to fall back to as a last resort if the initial issues with its construction and placement could be solved, but for more people than just the COG elite. Because it sounds like it was very much built to last and support several generations of humans until the Locust threat was eliminated.

And don’t get me started on how Jinn wants the DBs to handle the brunt of Swarm engagements when they are simply not capable of it most of the time without heavy backup or humans to keep them from being utterly annihilated, and then relying on no Flocks being nearby.

/end wall of text

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This was a real nice surprise and I liked the new final boss fight as well, very monster hunter-ish, although I know it was a combo of using existing attacks from snatcher and Matriarch U-Spin-Me-Right-Round have a bone quill.

Personally I would’ve liked a new weapon as that is part of the fun in gears (RAAMs Shadow had quite a few special weapons)… but I suppose that’s what the environmental hazards were for to scorch and freeze and deny cover spots.

I’m just saying, it would’ve been a great time to add in some new/old weapons. Maybe in Sanctum they could’ve retrieved a prototype weapon.

Personally I’d have like to see The Kryll Finger make a return… but Robotified. Maybe Watch Dogs 3 Robo-Bees type of deal.

Or Mass Effect 3 Reegar X (chain lightning).

Or, make a modded hammerburst gun much like the Grenade Launcher version of the lancer. Except the Hammerburst “Grenade” creates a Death Zone Bubble, where if you shoot bullets at the Death Zone Bubble, your bullets will curve at enemies inside of the Death Zone Bubble. Stop all campers camping around corners.

I personally fail to see those similarities. Especially with digging underground and sending up acid bubbles as well as flying, couldn’t really be much further from the Snatcher. Also a LOT tougher to bring down… in the Campaign, anyway, feels like it wasn’t very difficult to figure out and counter the boss in Horde, so it became easy to beat there as well. Venom glands being so weak and easy to destroy doesn’t help either when they are very much tough to take down in Campaign.

Maybe I just don’t find it very engaging that we have all these status effects and whatnot that can kill almost anything off extremely quickly, especially when it gets frozen, in Horde.

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Brings me back to the old days, when the Epic Games forums had a living, breathing Story & Characters sub-forum.

The overgrowth on the Vulture was consistent with a year in a tropical jungle on Earth. Keep in mind that a Seran jungle with humongous plantlife probably grows faster than an Earth jungle. Plus, the Vulture would’ve picked up a lot of vegetation in its crevices during the crash, and trees that size create their own soil in the upper canopy, all of which would be exposed to sunlight due to the Vulture’s new location.

Rust also happens very fast in jungles, due to the moisture. All the paint scraped off in the crash would reveal bare metal, allowing that rust to happen quicker. And the higher the temperatures, the faster the rust.

She probably took evasive action. We can’t see her hands or any orientating terrain. But it was like trying to dodge a lock-on missile that can think.

Yeah… And one of those metal spears went all the way through her spine and out her lower back. But she still had to deploy the parachute herself. Those things don’t deploy on their own.

Sam was flying a KR gunship, which does have rocket pods on the sides. But Tak’s rockets are in the nose, with special launch tubes.

Most Ravens only had doorguns, and/or one .50 cal mounted under the nose.

They’d have volunteers up and down the streets. Lots of those volunteers would be operating on the stories they heard about Hollow Storm, which was itself a suicide mission with no way back up.

The problem would be selecting the right volunteers for the job.

She likely has the support of the other Ministers for now. But she hasn’t re-instated the Fortification Act.

If the other Ministers sense their positions are threatened, they’ll do what politicians do: turn on whoever they can scapegoat. So if the population was made aware of Jinn’s mistakes, and wanted her out, the Ministers could probably elect a new First Minister in short order. I’m sure Anya made sure checks and balances were instated to some degree.

But the fact is, military coups usually don’t require public support… And they’re often followed by a secondary coup when factions of the military disagree with each other. So Jinn and the other Ministers will want to keep all their Gears focused on the war, and satisfied with the handling of that war. They’ll do whatever it takes to smooth over grievances and mistakes.

Funny thing is, it’s only a matter of time until the Swarm figures out a counter to the Hivebusters. They don’t really need LIVING bodies (Sanctum didn’t even have bodies, and the Weilehi village didn’t have enough people to fill Sanctum either).

That means the Hivebuster operation only has a limited window of viability. Best to use it to the COG’s full advantage while they still can.

But, some might argue that a captured Venom bomb could prove too dangerous. Even though it seems the Wakaatu’s venom/acid was much less dangerous to humans than it was to Swarm, and the Venom gas itself affects humans more slowly than it affects the Swarm.

Honestly? To fill some time between games, because it’s cool, and because Delta is comprised of some of the best Gears in the army. They’d bring invaluable expertise to the operation, because they’ve already infiltrated large and small Hives the hard way.

Kait’s cut off from the hivemind now, and Jinn has seen firsthand that trying to link Kait back to the hivemind will cause an instant coup. So the only risk to Kait is that she’ll become a juvie, then a drone.

Too late. The facility can’t be fixed (the report stated it probably shouldn’t have been placed there at all), and the Swarm can return to the island through lava tubes.

I see your wall of text and I raise you 20,000 bricks.


I’m sensing a theme.

But the COG is kinda fascist so…


Well, it was either the USSR, or the CIA and the American soldiers who smuggle stuff, then quietly disappear. But the latter is not so fun to think about.

Aaand that’s probably all I can get away with before taking the thread off-topic.

Wisdom, this is a thread I created…


But the mods can close this thread, too… :smirk:
They are way too overpowered! :open_mouth:

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Or they can move it into off topic banter :sunglasses:

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Or move it to other galaxies! :sunglasses:

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You’re making a good point concerning a landing strip for planes, but there’s actually an explanation for that: the Sanctum. In order to construct that, they’d need an airstrip for larger planes to bring in supplies. There’s probably a small port over there too. That however doesn’t mean that after so many years the airstrip is still in a good condition. Probably largely overgrown by vegetation by now.

Jinn’s a really curious case, I have no idea what TC wants with her. Everything we’ve been shown and told is how much of an incompetent leader she is with little to no backing from others. It makes no sense, you don’t rule for long in a dictatorship if you’re incompetent. There would be plenty of others willing to take power for themselves. The way she’s portrayed, there is just no chance she would be able to remain in power in Gears 6 (but we lack a believable person who would be able to replace her). There’s really no lesson to be learned from her. With Prescott, you knew he was a bad person. He made terrible decisions, but most were for the benefit of humankind (although at a high cost, such as the Hammer Strikes). Jinn just seems to have tunnel vision and is emotionally driven, not showing any rationalism. I doubt that the military brass who have been through the Locust Wars and possibly Pendulum Wars would tolerate such a person for a long time. Hofman and parts of the COG military working behind her back are proof of that.

In general, the idea of the COG being fascist doesn’t really make much sense any more. The fascist ideology heavily relies on some elements, such as that all must serve the state, which is governed by a ‘strong man’ : a male dictator heavily backed by the military. It is a person with usually a military background, given a specific title indicating his dominant role. Just think of nicknames like the ‘führer’ or ‘el duce’. The title ‘First minister’ seems to indicate more of a democracy than a fascist state.
Absolute loyalty and belief in the ideology is also a must, critical thinking and disloyalty are an absolute no-no. Yet we’re seen constant disloyalty, no respect for the chain of command, people acting on their own and even a scene where people are pulling their weapons against Jinn. Any of these acts would be considered treason and enough for capital punishment, the latter would be enough in a democracy to spend some serious time in prison. Yet Delta seems to get away with it all. Of course, people like Marcus have huge credibility. Putting him on trial would lead to a revolt, but this doesn’t excuse other people like Fahz or Kait. There’s also so much credit people could spend, eventually dictatorships find creative ways to get rid of people with credibility such as fabricating evidence to form a sham trial of treason, or to assassinate them and find a scapegoat for the people to hate.
Then there’s also the important element of gender: fascism is notably heavily sexist. It relies on the strong leadership of men, while the woman’s rights are basically downgraded to taking care of the family and giving as many children as possible. You can even see this in modern times, with the idea of ‘white sharia’ (I am not kidding). You can see that partially in the lore with the breeding farms founded by Prescott, in the new saga it seems to be more something heavily promoted by the government rather than enforced. Having a fascist state led by a woman just seems to be odd.
These features could be seen in fascist governments of the past such as Germany, Italy, Spain and Croatia. Other far-right dictatorships from the past in other parts of the world, like South America, displayed similar features. None of this of course means that the Gears universe has to follow the actual fascism we know, yet it’s also weird to call it that way if there aren’t that many resemblances to it. It now just seems to be named that way because of the past and the bad association we put on hearing it, rather than it to be actually true.

For a general idea of how one would have to rule a dictatorship, CGP Grey has made a great video about it:

You can actually see elements of his video back in the real world. Like how did the Arab Spring work out for Egypt? The people were led to believe they overthrew a dictator to bring democracy, yet those in power would eventually put a new dictator in place creating a situation worse than before. How is Belarus working out? Clearly, nearly the entire population is done with its leader. Yet he’s still in power. How? The other ones in power see their best interest in keeping him in power. So you have a bizarre situation of a state openly not supported by the population yet keeps functioning as if nothing happened. TC would need to give a logical explanation concerning the power that Jinn holds, otherwise there would need to be a coup or civil war in Gears 6.


Well, you always have me up for story discussions, as that is my main interest in games while viewing the MP as extras. I’m no Stoic Slab or Parasidian though…

It can still prove lethal to humans when exposed long enough, but I get the impression the Swarm for one reason or another are extremely vulnerable to acidic substances and also the New Hope toxin/toxic gas(they refer to it as a toxin, which isn’t a term I’d heard used before then), albeit the latter mostly seemed to work on “lesser” Swarm while the likes of Snatchers and Wardens really couldn’t care much about it.

But the one thing we have not actually seen in a story environment is how Scions and more specifically Wardens are effected by the Wakaatu acid. Carriers… well, there was a partially melted Carrier with a large chunk of flesh missing also revealing part of its spine at the back , so it’s safe to assume that the Swarm grown creatures are not safe to it as well. Makes you wonder. Maybe they just forgot to show such or it is on purpose.

That wasn’t my line of thought. If the venom bomb was planted at the center of a hive and (new) Delta participated in one of those missions - assuming the best of the best of the COG were accepting to participate in them -, but Kait ended up captured or killed by the Swarm in the hive, we clearly have seen they aren’t strangers of subverting biological forms to their own cause with Reyna’s body, so they could almost certainly either repair the brain damage to reconnect Kait to the hivemind and give Myrrah another body to use, or otherwise alter it to make it useable for her mind, either as a backup for if Reyna’s was destroyed or Myrrah wanted a younger body that didn’t have to be corrupted with Swarm biomatter and Locust crystals which may have reduced its functional uses and possibly the remaining lifespan of the body as well.

I do was saying if there was any way the new COG could get around the issues with its construction and the placement basically underneath a volcano. But it would probably be simpler to build another bunker in a different location if even any are safe from the Swarm. COG could at least have attempted to salvage some of the resources spent into the project which is on a massive scale, before turning it into a burial site. But I personally suspect they(Swarm) don’t just use these lava tubes to travel around or they would still be isolated from the entirety of the rest of them on Pahanu and Weilehi(if that’s the name of the other island). Not to mention if a flood of lava or another hazard(without going into my volcanic eruption knowledge because they were a childhood fascination) came from the volcano if it erupted, the tube(s) would either become sealed up or temporarily unusable.

To your bricks I raise you even more text.


I just want to know: does connecting yourself to the Swarm let them know your thoughts. We sorta saw how Scorpio sort of got into Mac’s ‘dreams’ while in the pods…if the Swarm are psychically (mentally?) aware…would this not tip them off to the fact that Scorpio is doing a Trojan Horse scenario?

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Well in the Snatcher they wouldn’t be too connected, only when Podded. Not sure how long they spend in the Pods. Also being conscious (with the masks) in the Pods probably hurts the link.

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Do u get disconnects while playing coop?

I always get every 2 minutes. Multiplayer works fine tho.

There. I fixed it lol

I’d rather spend a full length campaign with hana by my side than kait for an hour