Gnasher update incoming

https://www.gears5.com/gnasher-update-jan2020/

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We have some incoming animation tweaks to reduce instances of some shots hitting cover when shooting during cover slips

Oh goody, even stronger up-A’s!

Also not thrilled at the idea of cranking up pellet magnetism to improve gnasher “consistency.”

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Hallelujah!!

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at last man !! @Jaylin117x

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I knew it, dude… And the fact that this disadvantage only affected KBM users to this extent is just sad… I’ve barely played this game for the last 2 months. The second I got Masters in TDM this time around, I stopped more or less completely because the game’s felt like such trash… So tired of these monumental F**k-ups.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy this has been recognized and is supposedly gonna’ be fixed… but it’s hard to be positive when it comes to this game. I’m now skeptical of everything this dev does, because they’ve shown time and time again that something internally is very wrong and needs to change. This game feels like it’s built on egg shells.

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I played two matches against you last night in Guardian. Good to finally play with you bud!

Did it feel weird to you too though? The high pings caused movement and shot registration issues on my end and it seemed like even you were experiencing issues too. Gotta love Gears!

Good games though bud!

Ha, I legit can’t remember the matches, man. As I said, I haven’t been playing this much as I can’t stand it for more than an hour or so. Guardian is usually my first Masters claimed, but last night I just got done placing in Bronze 1 and am now Silver 3, lol… Hope I did okay in your match though!

You did fine.

You beat us both times. I was struggling to do much but I loved when we battled because I recognized you from these forums.

I’m hoping these Gnasher fixes are what I always felt was latency issues. So many bullets with full pellets showing on my end do 0%. Its bad.

I’ll add you on XBL, man. You’ve gotta’ be better than most of the randoms I get matched with. I usually just run a group of 2 or 3 =P

I was Diamond 4 in Gears 4 KotH. I was D1 in KotH Gears 5 but didn’t go higher cause I started playing other modes (and the issues kept me from playing much)

I think it’s needed. The gun has felt super inconsistent since one of the previous updates that messed with the magnetism. Obviously it was too much and needed a change, but the current state of the gnasher is not good.

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It would seem this is merely a design flaw that is being fixed no?

As far as the magnetism, they say this:

TL;DR – Gnasher bullet magnetism was only active at extremely close ranges due to a knock on from TU3, causing less magnetism than usual and making the Gnasher feel more inconsistent. Live fix incoming soon – we’ll confirm a final date soon.

It would seem it isn’t being cranked up as much as it is returning to the previous state of functioning it was meant to be at?

Surely the company actually fixing the game is a good thing right?

The TC post describes a bug that’s causing magnetism to work differently depending on range, but from what I understand the underlying “problem” involves preventing pellets from passing between arms and legs:

Magnetism helps ensure an intuitive Gnasher – when one pellet sails under an arm or leg even though you had perfect aim on center of mass, magnetism is there to minimize that chance of happening.

To me, this sounds like how a weapon with spread should inherently function. If a pellet is on a trajectory to pass under an arm or leg, why should there be manetism in place to move it onto the target? The Gears 5 Gnasher even has fixed spread, so I don’t really see how this is a matter of “consistency,” per se.

I guess I would like additional information before I make my judgment. If the Gnasher pellets are being given the same magnetism as every other gun in the game, that’s fine. The way I read the post, however, it sounded like the Gnasher is supposed to have some sort of extra magnetism to mitigate the effects of shot spread.

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I agree with you but lets see how this works out. I also think the shotgun and rank would get better if they took off aim assist in all ranked Playlist. With this new update it would allow the gnasher to be consistent without allowing bs roll shots, and weapon shots to hit or chunk you randomly.

edit; this will show true skill in ranked as it should be.

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Ha! So glad to know it wasn’t me and this weapon switch 4 frame crap is what’s been messing up. I tend to supress fire and then switch the gnasher. I dunno how many times I’ve gone “I had that shot! WTF”

I am also playing on PC with K&M. I don’t really care about the bullet magnetism thing because I feel is a crutch, but whatever. That issue (the weapon switch) really bother me.

TC really needs to implement a real time reticle that follows the barrel and is aware of object collision like that of Metal Gear Solid 5 (go hard aim in that game and walk towards something and you’ll see how the barrel follows the reticle and the reticle warns you with an additional second reticle of where the shot will really go)

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The way I see it is that magnetism was not functioning or was functioning based on an incorrect origin point in relation to range from enemy(Camera vs gun). (I don’t believe this is a new change, as they clearly state this was a working mechanism pre TU3) The prevention of pellets passing through arms/legs is more of a fundamental function of magnetism itself which has always been present where magnetism has been.

Therefore to me it seems that the functionality of magnetism wasn’t so much the issue as the consistency of it’s trigger/range.

I believe the nature of what is going on here is a developmental limitation.

Instead of investigating every single frame for every single animation, and its interaction with the camera/shot/gun animation(position transition) system- having to ensure that the nearly limitless instances of potentially bad interactions contain none— they can simply implement magnetism as a catch all system for correcting these bad interactions where they would otherwise occur.

In short, it is in my opinion, more accurate to think of magnetism as a system fault prevention mechanism, rather than a human error assistance mechanism.

As far as specifically the instance of a center mass aimed shot missing bullets to the gaps of the legs or arms- What is likely being referred to by TC here is the occurrence of these bad interactions of camera/gun angle/shot system happening such as you take a properly aimed shot, but the shot will go somewhere slightly off compared to that aiming where some pellets may miss. Clearly, in cases such as this, it is purely a system fault prevention taking place, and not a human error assistance.

I too would like some clarity here. Presumably the gnasher is on the receiving end of especially in depth tuning in this department due to popularity & popular scrutiny, or perhaps the nature of the shotgun itself is what requires the magnetism in interaction with the systems in place in the gears mechanism. Perhaps all guns receive it as a natural necessity resulting from the systems in gears (It’s unique 3rd person style, and all), and the gnasher simply needs more of it to counter the high occurrence of fault.

Whatever the case, it would seem a very necessary system to be in place. I cannot imagine the company can afford the manpower/hours necessary to manually check every single frame for every single interaction to ensure a proper outcome in relation to well aimed shots not missing portions of -or complete -shots.

All of this is to say, I don’t see this modifying human input in any way, other than to adjust the systems within gears’ bad interactions with it.

Perhaps @TC_Octus or @N0DEZER0 would like to take the oppurtunity to comment on the in depth mechanics at play here, their necessity/functions, and the reasons for their current form of implementation? This seems like the perfect thread to engage in the nuanced details.

But what would I know, I’m just a dirty horde main, right? haha

(I refrained from commenting on whether or not the bullet spread should function as a true randomized spread or fixed spread into relation to the magnetism, as that is the kind of nuanced depth I’m unaware of. I can speak to my feelings and experience on it, but not with concrete certainty as I assume some pros and developers can. They likely have exact knowledge of when and how these mechanisms interact. Though if you ask me, based on my limited knowledge, it would seem there is spread during certain actions or states of the character such as quickly moving or aiming. although, I could be wrong about this as its only what I feel is happening. Maybe the spread is fixed at all times, and the only issue is the interactions between various systems and magnetism properly functioning as a catch all.)

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I get what you’re saying, Mark, but I’m playing on mouse and keyboard so it sounds like I’ve been dealing with absolutely no magnetism on hip-fire with Gnash and it just feels straight terrible, man.

The post basically says it’s going to reward players with perfect center-mass aim and ensure all of their pellets hit and I legit think that’s going to make the gun feel way more reliable. As it is currently, I record moments where I’d bet my life it should be 100% hit, but half of the pellets go through legs, the crevice between someone’s chin and shoulder, etc, and , to me personally, it’s unbearable.

As is now, my ‘perfect aim’ doesn’t mean ■■■■ because a random animation just might perfectly line up resulting in half my pellets missing and I very much dislike that. I get that it’s more realistic, etc, but that doesn’t translate to a reliable and fun weapon to use in online play in my experience.

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I agree, and I believe satisfying the sentiment you lay out here is exactly the intention of the fix for the system in question, as well as the origin/purpose of its existence in the franchise. It very much seems to be the necessary keystone of proper “play-feel” for gears, with it’s unique 3rd person style.

I suppose we need TC input here to be sure. hint hint cough cough

Awesome news, I was in denial for a while thinking it was me but it happened a few times recently where I was thinking it’s not me, it was not lag either as the game was very smooth…I think it might have been that weapon switching thing.

Anyways glad they found the cause so they can fix this and move onto something else, because they also mentioned how they are really hard at work for the phase 3 of the matchmaking update so I’m thinking these 2 things have kept them quite busy recently

"The team undertook a rigorous investigation to identify any potential issues. The process took time as the Gnasher is a complex beast that relies on a lot of different systems to feel right."

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Hmmm, I’m not sure tc is right on this, pellets threaded between limbs way before the last update.
Not really a fan of more magnetism, with aim assist off hopefully this won’t effect me.

Their talking about shots ghosting is good, kudos to them if the manage to fix one cause of this. Lets hope they don’t think that’s the end of it. I get shots that pass through people and i rarely switch weapons.

The shots going off in the middle of animations I something I see myself doing alot. So it all cant be related to switching weapons, or only when in cover. Heck I shot while roadie running the other day, pity the animation has the gun pointed down and it got me killed.

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