Neither will die. The horde queen will integrate them into the collective which will restore their body in the process. They will then be saved before their body is incorporated. Marcus will die of old age at some point and be uploaded into an AI.
First playthrough I chose to save Del. My thinking was that Del could command Jack from the wrist console (though voice commands seem to work too so honestly Kait could have used Jack while the boys were being choked) and Kait and Del could Flash Freeze Reyna and save JD.
A second part of my thinking was Baird will kick the bucket soon. Del is basically a Baird when it comes to engineering and science stuff. Never compared Del to Dom. My thinking was that in terms of useful long term knowledge, Del would be a better pick. Del also has specialized military training which is mentioned in Act 3. I’m sure JD went through training as well but still. Training doesn’t mean too much. Look at all the Onyx Guards that died over the years, and even during the battle on the wall.
Third part of my thinking was that JD deserved it. Settlement 2 (both times). We don’t have the exact details on the insurgence / protest. Only thing we got was that they were using “fire bombs” or incendiaries. Del managed to keep his Deebees under control and refrain from shedding blood. JD failed in his leadership and panicked or issued an order that he regretted (he states it was confusing and that he didn’t want to after Fahz spills the beans) so ergo, COG killing more civilians. Go figure. Perfect transition though, some or all of Lizzie Carmine’s convoy could have made it out of there if JD hadn’t called in the hammer. The rest of the settlement was evacuated. Lizzie’s convoy and Delta were the only ones left. They were providing covering fire for the convoy. Granted, the swarm would still have targeted the convoy, but we do see the one Minotaur(?) start to leave before getting blasted by the hammer of dawn. Would probably have gotten away otherwise. Lizzie’s specific truck is a bit more iffy because of the rubble. I didn’t want Lizzie to die but she’s a Carmine so I kinda figured but still. Anyways, JD killed the innocents (or at least issued the order to) in the past, and then hammer of dawned them and killed Lizzie. Dunno what happened to the civvies that hopped out of Lizzie’s truck. Could have been hammered. Could have made it away safe but idk. Either way, His death will make a lot of settlement 2 survivors happy knowing he “got the justice he deserved” which he definitely didn’t get when he was promoted.
Del isn’t as ■■■■■■. Yeah, so his “character growth” isn’t really all there. But he was an emotionally supportive rock for Kait, which she needed. JD sucked at that, especially after settlement 2. I doubt a romantic relationship would have developed between any of them while all alive, because I do see it as three good friends. See her flying solo for a while.
Also, So what if no one said much during the scenes from JD’s death? What did you went them to say? Aww ■■■■ Marcus, sorry you lost more family. No one knows how to comfort someone who’s lost that much without sounding generic or patronizing. Dude lost his brother in front of him. His father in front of him. Not sure about his wife but also probably in front of him since war wasn’t happening. Saw Tai kill himself. Witnessed so many people die. He knows how to suppress stuff in the heat of the moment. He shrugged Kait off but said “We’re not done” meaning he wanted to know the deets and probably wanted to lay into her but knew that the moment was definitely not for that time.
I’m not saying either of the cutscenes for the deaths are better than the other, but to say that Del’s made no sense or that Del wasn’t important is wrong. He was important for different things. I feel that everyone’s respectful silence for JD and for Marcus, a grieving father, was appropriate. It’s hard to console someone whose lost a child. There’s not much if anything you can say. It’s a pretty feasible and logical response. And yeah, being a Fenix doesn’t give them the invulnerability to die. Besides, James Dominic Fenix. Dom died before Marcus. It’s in JD’s name to die before Marcus. (That’s more of a tease than a real reason) but anywho.
Honestly I was hoping for a knife throw at Reyna and having to not choose either, but I went with Del because Kait + Del + Jack would have been easier to get JD. especially since she takes the time to taunt Kait before snapping JD’s neck. Like come on. So much room for the middle option. They weren’t unconscious. We know JD can stim his arm with a press of a button. His arms were free. They could have all taken her down and escaped, and then maybe someone could have fallen down the hole. Idk.
Based on the cutscenes and some stuff I read though JD will probably be the pick anyways because they ship JD and Kait and there is potential I guess. JD will either make a Post-Dom Marcus move and go after the Queen for vengeance, or Post-Anya move and shut himself out. But given that Del died it’ll probably just be a vengeance thing.
Oh also, the whole “Marcus would be mad they didn’t recover the body” argument is absolutely dumb. Absolutely. The COG’s whole thing is the about the person’s deeds and mark they leave behind, not the body. That’s why they have the COG tags. Tags are a lot more efficient to be brought back than bodies. When you enter the tomb, walk around the big slab that the pouncer kills the gear on. It pretty much says it clear as day the memory of the person and their deeds are more important than the body. When you get down to to the open area before going to Paduk, you can see a memorial wall with a bunch of names on there. Noteworthy ones would be Will Carmine (not a buff on the Carmine family but guessing it’s a parent of A/B or C. Adam Jonathon Fenix. AKA Marcus’ dad. Remember how he died? He became literal ash and dust. No body to recover there (ashes I guess but idk) but the tags were recovered. Tai Kaliso is on there. Anthony and Benjamin Carmine are on there. And we know Ben’s body wasn’t recovered because he was left in the Riftworm, and you find his helmet in the skeleton of it in Act 2. There’s one or two others that stand out but the point is the COG left bodies EVERYWHERE. They were so unconcerned about COG bodies that they spent months burying Locust everywhere. Like come on.
EDIT: And yeah, I’m aware that Baird was the one that pushed the button to call the hammer and be blamed himself for what happened. But that doesn’t mean that’ll be to the understanding of the civilians or Outsiders. Baird also retained his position as Control so he wasn’t reprimanded either. But again, JD was promoted after issuing that order.
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I would love to know why they asked us to make this choice, it doesn’t make sense to me to make somebody choose because people will choose JD or they will choose Del, either way half the crowd is going to get pissed when the next one comes out and their choice wasn’t the correct one.
Maybe they will let us vote like the carmine vote before gears3.
Personally I killed Del for being a useless ■■■■ and just standing there holding a pipe when i had to fight the Matriarch. F U Del !
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I understood what they did with the Carmine vote , because the game wasn’t out at that point, this and what they made us do makes absolutely no sense.
Is there a way for them to track our choice? Would it be our first choice, because they should know people will go back and make the other decision, shouldn’t they?
I also chose JD over Del due to the fact I spent more time picking Del up than I spent downing Swarm!
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It’s the choice itself that I have an issue with. I know I’m probably not gonna get any answers, but just don’t understand why they put this in the game. Out of all the decisions they made about this game, this is the one that bothers me the most I just don’t understand why they made us choose.
The only way it makes sense is if, like someone posted earlier, that it was all a dream.
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Mod edit, please post in English only as per the forum rules. Thank you.
Marcus’ reaction to Dom in GOW3 was prior to him actually dying. As far as the events are concerned he was wanting for Dom to bail and not sacrifice himself.
Marcus’ reaction in GOW5 was after JD had died. Very different context.
Right, just finished the game. Admittedly having to make the choice felt weird, since most likely in the next game it’s gonna be a specific char gone anyway instead of what you personally chose. This is an otherwise linear story series, after all. Would’ve been more fitting to try and fail to save one of them.
For the choice itself, I tried to choose what Kait would’ve chosen, which would’ve most likely been to save Del based on the events of the game and all. But even though my GOW:UE campaign is still unfinished and haven’t played 2 & 3 ( no Xbox) and thus haven’t seen all Marcus has had to go through, still felt quite terrible for Marcus for my choice, fictional character or not.
If you read the novel Del is kind of like Baird Jr with the technology. I feel like JD dying is redemption for what he did regarding the order to fire on the crowd of civillians at the revolt.
I got to agree del will be the canon and here’s why people may argue that del has potential to have more story but when it comes down to it he was a side character . Now i know that sounds stupid but look at it this way JD (being a fenix doesn’t make him death immune don’t get me wrong) but JD and kait have been through alot aswell it doesn’t matter if he wasn’t on the journey with her it makes more sense to save him. The developers throughout the game series killed off people marcus cared about now that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t die but i think marcus and JD have alot of character development to go through which makes sense to save JD. To summarize JD and kait been through more he journeyed with her to find her mom to begin with incase people forgot that it would mean they been through more emotionally which means she’d save him.
Maybe the COG (or Baird) will bring Del back to life as a cyborg!? 
And maybe Del’s new body will contains engineering tools!?
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I can’t for the life of me figure out why these liberal players seem to believe JD neeeds to be “redeemed”. Or that he actually deserves to ■■■■■■■ die for it, (more than Del “deserves to die” for being a ‘worthless’ character, which is just as stupid an argument) for killing literal terrorists. The Del and Kait conversations about JD are pathetic too. I’m with JD and Fahz on this. ■■■■ those “innocent” civilians. What the cowardly ■■■■ heads did was hide among actual innocents much like real life terrorists tend to do, and attacked a legitimate government.
The second you start throwing firebombs (that could have caused more deaths if they caught other civilians or the legitimate military officials or even buildings on fire), and assaulting authority figures assigned to keep your idiotic whiny *** in line - to the point you break bones - you lose the right to call yourselves “protestors”. You don’t agree with COG laws? Tough rocks pal. Go Outsider. See how long your coddled ■■■ lasts in the wilderness. You’re the one living in a COG Settlement. Don’t like it, leave. But don’t fling weapons around and cry like a baby later about your people being “butchered” when your lives were at risk because of those literal terrorists .
People seem to forget the glaring plot hole too. Cog didn’t even deploy DBs with non-lethals before Jinn showed off the DR1s and captured Oscar at Settlement 5, and subsequently sent an entire army after JD and co. throughout the campaign.
“Woah, the whole killer DB thing? Jinn’s idea not mine.”
“Ma’am, Burn gel isn’t gonna help. DBs are armed with a lot more than shock rifles now.”
“Oh ■■■■ Jinn’s using lethal force?”
Earlier:
“You mean like at Settlement 2?”
"You know that wasn’t their fault! "
[J.D. to Del:] “When you wanted to leave the CoG, did I argue?”
Here’s the big one plot hole regarding Marcus and the Swarm while trying to investigate Fort Reval.
“I don’t know. Whatever this is I’ve never seen anything like it”.
Ummmmmm…excuse me, Marcus? ■■■■■■■
EXCUSE me? LMFAO
Weird glowy vines with pods that split open and poop monsters out of them…? Not ringing a bell?
Because I remember you slogging through wastelands and a tropical island on insane difficulty,
fighting through an army of glowing exploding enemies that emerged from spitting pods attached to viney growths.
I mean, I don’t wanna insult you for being senile like Hoffman. I guess that’s one of the nice things about getting old. You don’t have to remember your three year long war against the glowies.
Why change your previous game’s background stories? Bring. Back. TRAVISS.
Del clearly was aware of what happened. Why did these idiots make it JDs fault in the sequel, and have Del and Kait not know what happened. In 4, Reyna and Kait and even Oscar acted like they knew what happened and welcomed JD and Del anyway (even with some minor misgivings, Outsiders were otherwise decent and average people with morals). I’m thinking the protesters were older stranded types that were still pissy about Prescott using the Hammer of Dawn.
See? Plot holes.
This is what happens when you don’t plan out your games. This why Ortega was able to give us a rehash of the Flood and why Karen Traviss had to write in a stupid Deus ex Machina worse than “Harry Potter and the Disarming Spell and the Biased Elder Wand”.
A legitimate government that also - apparently / went back on its promise of letting Settlement 2 guide itself and instead treated it as an extension of New Ephyra, and then calls anything saying this promise was given and broken “seditious”, like it is wrong to say the truth, assuming no manipulation of facts from the side of whoever called this out. That’s certainly how a collectible in Settlement 2 makes it come across. So could the situation just have been avoided if the government didn’t decide to go back on what it had promised to its citizens instead of going authoritarian on them?
As for the rest, I don’t have intentions to get involved on the whole incendiary thing. My impression was always that Kait and Del didn’t react negatively to this because of him ordering the DBs to open fire on the protesters, where we don’t know if those who remained peaceful were also fired upon or not, but because he kept it a secret even when Kait was defending him at Settlement 5.
And what JD “redeeming” himself for is, it isn’t the whole protesters incident but how he pushed away Kait and Del for four months like they didn’t exist. That’s my view anyway, or how I understood it.
You seem awfully upset about this, also.
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Yeah. I sort of am but it’s only because of all the plot holes. I don’t get why they had Marcus with that line or why they seeped to flip flop on all their story beats like that like they just made it up as they went along.
Except it’s heavily implied that at least some of the protestors were just that - protestors, who paid the ultimate price. It’s heavily implied that not all were violent. We obviously don’t know what proportion, but as with real life when you have large scale protests you almost inevitably also get some participants who are violent troublemakers.
I thought the story did well to present both sides of the argument. And I think Del and Kait’s discussions of it were understandable. Remember that Del did not know it was JD who gave the order to open fire. It’s unclear precisely if Del personally opened fire (as in, if he followed orders) or was just present in some shape or form, but it seems like he chose to leave the COG as a result. What I found interesting was that JD (in GOW4) made it sound like he followed Del out of friendship and loyalty, when what transpires was that JD chose to keep this a secret and chose to follow Del out of the COG (what appears to me) when he lacked the courage and strength of conviction to leave himself, but when Del expresses a wish to leave, he [JD] presumably jumps at the chance. Anyhow, I thought it was really well written and it’s clear that JD was struggling with his sense of guilt.
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Agree. It’s written well enough. Not Traviss style, but well enough.
When they pass that monument and Cole addresses the subject with JD, Del comes in from behind, he says “One of us managed to keep his DBs under control.”, indicating he made them hold their fire when those under the command of JD(we don’t know if Fahz had his own squad of DBs, but it is likely) were ordered to open fire. So he was definitely there and under control of his own DBs, if I interpreted it correctly. We don’t know if there was any COG order from higher up to “pacify” the protest, or as Fahz describes it, “identify and eliminate an insurgent element”.
Yeah that makes sense.
I think it was a “on-the-ground” decision made by JD. At the end of Act 1 just after Fahz reveals the truth, JD tries to explain himself and says something to the effect of “Guys, they were throwing incendiary grenades. It was all really confusing” which suggests it was a decision made by him personally.