Gears 5 panders to low skill players and that's why the community is leaving

So ive posted on here a few times with my disdain for Gears 5 but now i feel with the recent improvements and the devs reading customer feedback i think its time for me to actually give my two cents. Gears 5 had a rough launch and ive been a fan since the first, as is almost everyone who still plays this game 90 days after launch. That being said this isnt a “I hate @the-coalition” post at all. Most of this is my theory and speculation as well as what i want to see.

Here are my credentials
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Gnasher Problems,

There are a boatload and it has improved since launch but here is my take and theory , this is my opinion supported by only my experience in the literal years of playtime i have in the series, I have seen phenomenal players drop this game for many of the things ill mention. You can quote me and i may be very wrong on some things but most is opinion.

Gnasher During Movement

When i bounce the shot needs to be directed the same way it was in gears 4, Either by changing the in game animations of where the Gnasher points or reverting to the old and tested system. For example in gears 5 at launch while you blind-fire the center right of your screen is where the pellets would land, but as soon as your character is moving depending on what direction you are moving it will offset that shot entirely. Although this has improved since launch im still going to bring it up and go into it.

In previous gears games the Gnasher would generally point wherever the camera was facing during bouncing and cover transitions even if it wasn’t the bullets would hit that general location. A lot of people hated this because it would make a shot come out of the side of a gun during some movement. in short a lot of the inconsistencys players feel during bouncing are due to this intentional ‘issue’ when the Gnasher pointing where your character isn’t looking and firing prematurely, this is one major inconsistency compared to 4 that makes gears 5 feel the way it does.

I’ve experienced this issue the most when trying to backpedal like i used to in gears 4, unfortunately my Gnashers shots would often be thrown slightly too far to the right or left causing me to miss. Or sometimes even it will shoot in the direction of the camera or delay your shot until the two line up. I’ve noticed i have to slow down my plays to land shots and walk rather than to bounce, i understand this was the intention of gears 5 to slow down player movement but ill get into that later.

Up A’s Back A’s

Gears 4 had its problems with Up A’s as well making them sometimes too easy to land and allowing for shots to phase through cover and they fixed that for the most part but this is why IMO the problem i describes previously is happening. Gears 4 the up A was almost solely dependent on where your camera was facing on Gears 5 game it is almost entirely dependent on where your Gnasher is facing. Now here is where it gets confusing, on gears 4 if you were running toward a cover and immediately moved forward your camera was ‘snapped’ and the shot was pointed forward. In this game if your camera is slightly to the right or left your shot will shoot that way instead as if you’re blind firing in that direction. here is my attempt to draw that out. blue representing a shot in gears 4 during consistent movement and green representing where i assume the gears 5 shot is gonna land and red representing a crude drawing of a wild cube. In short to counteract this all i have to do is adjust my camera adjacent to the cover in order to land my shot, it just makes the up A harder to land and less consistent imo, Some may see this as an improvement.

At the games current state my only issue with back A’s is that sometimes my back A will be shot into the wall or damage will be totally negated, you could chalk that up to me not having the timing down or missing

Shot Registration

Im not sure if this is a server issue, client side issue or just the game in general but one thing thats always plagued gears has been shot registration, for gears 5 sometimes i shoot straight through a player or ill just shoot the player, see blood, 80-84%, hitpoints or sometimes just the hot bullets on their chest and not get a lick of damage. in gears UE this was caused by the Gnasher shot phasing through people and actually getting shot out of the map. im wondering if this is a similar issue.

missed

LT vs Blind fire Inconsistencies

The LT shot is extended and it should not be your pellets should not tighten because you are aiming down the sights. this issue has been in the game since Gears 2 and allows players who bot walk like the MLG GODS they are nail players like me trying to bait a shot to push for the GIB, i believe this also is the reason why players refuse to push and everyone in gnasher 2v’s hide back and hard aim.

Ranked and GP

  • Rank should be based on a solo performance model
  • Point MVP should get bonus GP
  • MVP should not be based on GP
  • Game-modes like koth/esc should give one point for every action capped at 100
  • Game-modes like EXE/Grid/TDM/Gardian/2v’s should give more points for kills but still cap at 100
  • Bonus points for best player, most damage, most obj capped ect
  • Earn points on rounds won as well as lose on rounds lost
  • Earn points for games won
  • GP should not be shown to anyone but the player its effecting
  • Show rank post match only
  • Maybe lose points on death and cap it at a certain point
  • Bring back EXE or EXE/WAR like gow 2
  • Briing back esc

This image sums up my opinion on ranked pre op4

This sums up Post op4

Weapon Balancing (Primarys)

This game needs to be fine tuned again as they did with gears 4, starting with a beta playlist is on the right track. with the tuning in its current state i feel it rewards those who hide and lancer and punishes players who push. This is what i mean by people are leaving

Gnasher more gnashery

The Gnasher in its current state needs a tune, look back to gears UE and gears 4 there wasn’t nearly as much range on the gnasher, i understand a few you-tubers have asked the devs for a poke range but i dont think this is what they meant. Now its not nearly as bad as launch but needs a little more close range consistency between LT and blind, a very radical damage dropoff and then plateau. then again the spread issue as mentioned above needs to be addressed first. To put words into numbers here is what id like to try If we go by the chart 220 Gib range, high immediate damage with a high droppoff to discourage Hard aim and encourage pushing and a low damage poke range so if a player is running you can finish them off. although i believe it should probably stop sooner than i drew out thats just what id like to try. Ideally Gears UE.

Lancer more lancery

The lancer needs a Debuff, but it has improved greatly. Getting put up against a five stack with randoms and having to clutch against 5 lancers is just abhorred. Ill sum it up, Absolutely no head-shot damage buff to the lancer shots if additional damage id like to see a 14 shot head-shot down, 16 body-shot downs, Remove recoil entirely, Remove at range damage drop off entirely. the lancer should be used to suppress and support. The snub should be used for mid range downs.

Snub

I like the snub the way it is currently is 9 shot headshot down or 10 shot body down, i miss the head-shot kills but they were OP.

Power Weapons

  • I preferred the boltock at a 2 shot head-shot but i understand why it was debuffed.

  • Boom Needs a slight AOE buff because it feels like it cant kill at all. either that or make it have an AOE down like UE

  • Drop-shot needs a third shot or an AOE buff

  • Bring back the scorcher and mortar.

Nades

  • Fire-nades need to have a larger kill range like in gears 3/4

  • Frags need a larger AOE

  • I dont like the fact that smokes don’t stun and that smokes dont fall to the ground before they explode.

  • flash should just blind but not stun or just remove it

Movement

In Gears 5 at launch they tried to slow the movement in order to punish players who are less methodical, in reality with the combination of the nuke launching Gnasher and Lancer this just caused the game to feel like a third person COD. What i believe the devs are starting to realize is you cant have Slow gears UE movement with cover breaking and high damage.

Gears 5 needs to prioritize a fluid movement system that has no limit to the wall bounce, i should not be punished for wall canceling. and there should be also some covers need to be tuned because ill have my ■■■■■■■ head against the wall and and still roll. Speaking of rolling someone should not be able to shoot right out of a roll they need to punish the roll but make it harder to miss-roll for people who play Default.

On PC you can chose individual keys to create a personal control scheme for M&KB why is this not allowed for controller players. For example i want to have Classic alt but A be Cover/Run and X be roll. Another thing why is retro charge and chainsaw on RB you cant chainsaw with an empty mag? if i could assign it myself like M&KB users can i could just avoid this issue in its entirety.

Map/Content creation

I did a whole post on this alone so let me just link it and quote myself.

Other more relevant opinions

  • Revert back to Gears 4 style movement with Gears UE style gunplay
  • Scrap knife melee
  • Scrap the ice cannon
  • Scrap aim assist in all modes.
  • More maps
  • Toggle GP notification in HUD
  • Toggle bloodsprays
  • Toggle Emotes
  • Toggle endzone marker in HUD
  • Toggle flag moved and weapons swapped gridiron menu prompts that block chat
  • Custom HUD, game timer map ammo ect
  • Do not show frags cross map in TAC com
  • Custom individual action controls for xbox controller players both on pc and on xbox
  • One stick movement for retro/chainsaw
  • GL should be an individual key
  • Toggle custom marks
  • Map Builder see above
  • Allow players to make custom weapon tunings
  • open source the dev kit
  • Fix the bug where i swap to my lancer and i cant shoot or reload
  • Force crossplay the community is dead
  • Limit character rotation speed to balance mouse users that plat high dpi, its broken

Irrelevant opinions

  • Allow view of scoreboard with names after games finished
  • FFA sucks because of the maps and too many players
  • More confetti skins maybe a theron sentinel
  • Classic omen
  • More characters
  • More skins
  • 90% should be earn-able
  • Everyone can hear me on pc but i cant hear anyone or toggle my mic, kinda annoying

Im tired of typing this im sure i missed something but whatever, ill add it later. Tear me a new one.

Edit: Separated less important things out of other.

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Good write up lad!

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Nice write up. Kudos.

I’m not high skilled, but I’m not leaving.

Couldn’t really put a finger on why you are either.

High skilled players rise to the top no matter the circumstances. That’s why they are high skilled.

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Gnasher inconsistencies are a real problem. I couldn’t agree more about them. It sucks when a lot of shots don’t behave in a consistent manner, as it forces you to try to play the game differently to avoid accuracy/spread differences. These issues limit the amount of options a player has to try to outplay their opponent.

[quote=“UthyrTheImpure, post:1, topic:48782”]
for gears 5 sometimes i shoot straight through a player
[/quote] In that clip, your shotgun muzzle is pointed far off to the side of the character model, causing the shot to go under the right armpit of the DB enemy model.

That damage range around 85% is a matter of distance. If you hit a full spread (all 12 pellets) outside of the gib range, you’re going to deal close to the max amount of damage you can hit outside of a one-shot. 87% is hitting all 12 pellets just outside of gib range by only a few Unreal Units. If ~230 Unreal Units is the gib range, then about 3 UUs is a very small distance indeed.

The devs have to figure out how best to determine the outcome of shotgun fights, given a load of variables they have to weigh. What TC seems to have determined is to make the window for “updating,” or trading a one-shot, extremely small. The result is that the vast majority of close shotgun fights will have one clear victor with the shot of the other player being completely removed. The “hot bullets on their chest” is something I believe is client-sided. The game on your end painted those pictures on the chest of the Karn, but because the servers deemed your shot to come out much later than the Karn’s shot, the servers didn’t allow your shot to complete its damage.

This is a very interesting opinion, as the vast majority of players I talk to complain about how much aggression is rewarded in this game. I personally feel like the balance of defending and attacking are in the realm of being balanced with some adjustments needed to nerf some attacking options. I believe a small reduction in movement speed mechanics, coupled with halving the window to shoot during the Up A animation, would be a good step in that direction. Defenders inherently have a ton of strong advantages, so it’s important to give attackers tools to push and win fights.

People need to be more effective at using all the weapons in their loadout, not just relying on the gnasher as a catch-all weapon. All the loadout weapons are designed with certain ranges and situations in mind. This is the result of many players being dead-set on almost exclusively using the gnasher for too many situations and ranges.

100% agree.

That’s a pretty huge nerf. It’s probably best to take it more slowly than that, though I like the direction you’re going. If the lancer is 11 shots to down, something like 13 shots to down is much more reasonable to try.

The boltok can still headshot with two shots, just at a much shorter range than before.

I actually feel like the non-active boom is very close to being in a good spot. I like generally like the idea of removing all damage and DPS increase from actives for consistency reasons and would buff the non-active boom by a small amount.

If you’re talking about non-active shots with the drop, I can understand where you’re coming from, but the actives on weapons are too frequent to not wait for before shooting. There’s literally about a 2 second window from when your current active disappears and the next active is ready to be reloaded. I would, again, remove the damage increase from the dropshot active and boost the damage/range of the dropshot by a small amount. The non-active dropshot is used to push people out of cover and sometimes get kills, but the active dropshot is basically so strong it’s “fire and forget.”

The instant kill radius on incendiaries are too far, in my opinion.

I think they’re basically perfect. The can very often be thrown in the middle of two covers and cover both the left and right covers simultaneously. You’re not supposed to get free kills by merely throwing them at people behind cover, just flushing them out to confirm the kill.

The stunning smokes in Gears 4 were ultra strong. Something that completely obscures vision for an extended duration and soft CCs in a combination is just too much from a loadout grenade. The second part about the smokes is actually a really nice QoL mechanic to the smokes that allow players to throw much more precise smokes to block vision for players crossing. If we take host spot on Blood Drive, for example, players looking to throw a smoke from the middle of the map would need to put the smoke up in the host pocket, very close to where the players are crossing from in order for the smoke to be effective. With this mechanic implemented, they now only need to hit the top 25% of that wall to block their vision. This allows for much more freedom in positions to throw effective smokes, as you don’t have to be as close to the wall to be able to throw it over the top.

Play alt.

Play alt.

If you have a problem with the movement mechanics of alt, please bring them up here.

Yep, pretty much. KBM have many more buttons in the layout, so it’s much easier for that input to be given full flexibility in assigning bindings without having broken combinations. Just imagine how much more strict it would be if the controller had 3 less buttons.

I love this mechanic, but think the lunge should be removed completely. A consistent melee option that has parity across all weapons is very nice.

That is a huge can of worms. There is so much depth in that topic alone, not to mention the likely contention over its definition.

All in all, thank you for making this post! You brought up a lot of great points for discussion and even made me feel like replying to a few of them.

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Im on and off again on this game. I abandoned the eSports scene in gow 4 because it took up too much time and i abandoned gears 5 on and off again due to these issues. Love the series to death, i just think it took a turn for the worst and almost all if my sweaty d5 gears 4 friends gb friends and og mlg friends have dipped.

Edit: Response to @Aurora_Symphony due to the forum rules i cant double post.

On my phone so im not gonna bother formatting lol.

That dee bee took another two tho lmao first was under armpit, also exactly what i was talking about when the gnasher doesn’t line up with where the camera is pointed. Look at that shot. Its angled and the gnasher is pointing off into the abyss

Hot bullets is probably clientside but i shot first and my ping is never over 30 so how come it didn’t connect? Happens all the time.

Im taking non active drop non active boom,

lancer is 11 head rn 15 body. So not a crazy nerf.

Poke range is a problem right now because it gives a player no way to bait a shot and play for a reaction shot, the amount of players that can lt me over a cover and 4 point me miles away then i have to find cover and ■■■■■■ my push.

My point with the 84 with the gnasher will be in range for a gib with an LT shot but not a blindfire.

Yeah thats an advantage to instant exploding smokes being able to cover a cross point immediately but honestly id still rather have a short stun and large ue style cloud

Knife doesn’t feel gears to me, it feels cod.

I have a program i was using to change my personal controller controls with keyboard inputs in order to have B for the chainsaw and A cover/run but it was too buggy for me. I played alt in UE but went back to default in 4 because i love to incorporate rodiestrafes into my bounce but i hate having to use two buttons.

As for the aim assist i agree but also disagree. There should be no shot gravitation or aim assist in any extent more than what gears UE/4 had to compensate for lag and lost packets. Giving players ‘core’ aim assist or console players more assist than others will make worse players have a false identity of what is and isnt a kill shot and what is and isnt a miss.

Appreciate you too bro, id be happy if one of the things i listed improved the game even in the slightest. Because i love the game but i hate the direction it took.:v:t2:

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Good write up! Although I don’t agree with everything you said, I respect the clarity and effort put in. Some key things I would say I agree with you on are,

  1. They need to lower the Gib range. I think that would greatly help gameplay and consistency with that simple change.

  2. Gnasher shot registration, I think increasing the windows of trades would at least help that out a little. In that clip you posted where the bullets are showing but no damage is done, I think that could easily be made into a trade scenario at the least.

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Memes in this thread are top tier

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Great Post :+1:

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Great read, hope they take a look at it.

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Best post I’ve seen in a while.

Can tell you know & care about the game.

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Angry’s Discord has invaded. Heaven help us

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Appreciate the feedback, the point is to start conversation and get the eye of these new developers and help them learn what the community really wants. The game clearly needs looking into and responding to everything you agreed or disagrees with would take over an hour. I watched @Aurora_Symphony do that lol .

The post was just an excuse for the memes

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Logically speaking there will always be more non-high skill players than high skill players.
If everyone is high skill then nobody is high skill.
For a game to do well it is probably wise to focus on the biggest bang for the buck on satisfied customers.

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It’s on Xbox game pass, they have people downloading it regardless.

If people want an easy game it shouldn’t be gears of war. lnot having a large skill gap will kill this game though.

Loved and was addicted to gow1 because the skill gaps were huge.

Also too many noob voices get heard these days. Gow caters to them now by providing an easier game to play.

Skill gaps are needed to allow plays to put the time in to improve. Instead gow is so inconsistent in so many ways now.

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Nice right up, but i am lost.

you are consistently diamond so what’s the problem? I find it interesting the high skilled players never mention how good they have it with match making and stack being match to 2 full ranks below them. If the whole community was diamond it would not matter about gnasher or lance or damage because most would not be diamond.

The problems you awesomely mention affect low ranks as well not just high ranks. Last night play solo. i was place with 4 Gold 3. I am silver 1. WTF. Now I will be playing 2 full ranks above the highest player on my squad. so what diamond 3. how nice is that for the diamond player and once they see this they just hunt you or freaking team up to inflate their kills. WTF so now i am punished by the game and by match making and gears 5 is pander to low ranks…? rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer.

I am not knocking your write up, but the issues affect us all. I cannot move up or get better if i am playing a diamond all the time. In fact, if anything new players, noobs or developing low ranks are moving off ranked because all the benefits go to high skilled players. We had to pay a 5 stack it was so bad, and you can see the skill difference they all had 80 plus kills and we were all in the 20 to 30. that’s a good match?

look at this clip from :19 to :21 slow it dwn. my 1st shot half pellet hit say 4. second shot about 9 and he walks out and chain saws me. I am not even counting they shots landed by team mate on my right WTF. a hit is a hit period. how about the 99% damages in 2 hits and they kill you in 3 hits. and no dwn. WTF.

Gears needs the whole community noob, low rank and high rank. it will not survive without both.

I love the write up. It just seems high ranks are flagging issues but yet they are still reaching high ranks.

I just want a fair game. you can clearly see when that is not happening. also keep in mind without noobs, and low ranks high ranks would not have games and vice versa.


I do respect the opinions and points made OP, I just don’t want to get technical enough to address them, but I do hate seeing the “Here’s why my argument is valid, I’m an 06 vet” statements. Because as a long-standing Gears fan myself it doesn’t matter to me if you’re Bronze or Masters, if you’v been playing since 06 or 2016. If you have a valid criticism of the game you’re allowed to have that.

Your status as a “Fan” doesn’t give any credentials to your points, it just gives context to your opinions. This isn’t a knock against this post specifically, but I just wanted to say it because I hear it everywhere and now I shall repost this paragraph upon seeing it in the future.

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:rofl:

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Yep I have the same problem with the gnsher after the update

If I must…

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