G4 Speedrunning (TCs failure to stop it's effectiveness) & How TC neutered Speedrunning in G5

Assuming my in-game stats are accurate, Horde 1-50 games seems to be just over 72 days; Horde Frenzies is 11 days (which seems a bit low - I suspect this is incorrect); and Escape is 51 days. It’s a pretty large amount.


So all-in-all do you seem to agree with my original post? You seem to have a lot of the stats down on paper.

Main points are …

#1 G4 TC made a mistake with Credits time-spent-earned-ratio (G4 Horde).

#2 The Star-System & latter the Gear=Coins/Ratio was implemented as the change needed to create more artificial grind potentially leading to a higher revenue stream for TC/Microsoft via mtx’s.

To be honest, I haven’t read the whole thing. Koty just tagged me with a question about earning stars based on play time, and here I am! :stuck_out_tongue:

My general views about the whole grinding system and comparing between GOW4 and GOW5.

  • GOW4’s system was total rubbish. The RNG lootbox format was horrible and poor value for money. The Credit drop-rate started out poor and gradually improved.

  • It’s clear that TC tried to eliminate speedruns in GOW4. Blood Drive spawns were broken; War Machine was fixed early on; and no doubt several others. However there eventually turned out to be speedruns on all maps, so it beame impossible for them to deal with all of them.

  • It seems clear that TC have been able to create GOW5 Horde with a mostly anti-speedrun ethos around it. The way PVE classes are designed and balanced, the way spawns work on the majority of maps etc. There are some speedruns, but none are as fast as in GOW4.

  • My personal view is that I prefer playing the game as TC intended - so I don’t really like speedruns. I believe that speedruns are very deskilling. Playing the game as it should be enables players to learn and to improve. Personally I really enjoy Escape and only ever play it on master difficulty nowadays. I still play it regularly now even 2 years on from launch, and it’s just enjoyable.

  • I can see the appeal of speedruns - GOW4 and GOW5 were/are very grindy, so it’s a means to an end. Also the RNG factor in GOW4 was a big thing; plus the time-limited nature of Gear Packs in the store created a culture of FOMO (fear of missing out). People were motivated to get Credits so they could get packs in order to get their favourite weapon and character skins. The RNG was poor and I remember on average it would cost me around 60,000 Credits to complete a set whenever a new Gear Pack came out (when I say set, I mean all of the items in that set - which was 14 weapons, the banner, and 2-3 characters on average). I did plenty of speedruns myself. It was a means to an end and a response to the grindy nature of the game.

  • There are some speedruns to grind XP or skill cards in Escape as well. The Surge on Insane difficulty; and The Clock on Inconceivable are easy and relatively quick ways for the average player to level up pretty much all classes. It’s extremely monotonous though. In the earlier days when I had lower level classes I would do this to level them up too.

  • In terms of grinding for skill cards, while the system in GOW5 isn’t perfect, it is an improvement on GOW4’s system. You unlock each initial skill card as you progress and level up, and then it switches to RNG drops for completing X-number of waves; acts in Escape etc.

  • I prefer this system because I feel that the RNG factor is reduced. In GOW5 if you want skill cards for the Nomad, then you play as the Nomad. The RNG is limited to Nomad skills. In GOW4 you had to buy Horde Packs which covered all skill cards for all five classes; and even then only 3 of the 5 card slots were guaranteed Horde skills - there were also customisation items and bounties thrown into the mix. Plus if you were specifically wanting to get skill cards for the Soldier, there was nothing to stop you from getting cards for the Scout or the Sniper. The flipside is that there are now 19 classes in total comapred to 5, but despite this I prefer this system.

  • The system which auto-scraps duplicate skill cards in GOW5 is a nice addition, but frankly it should have been in the game much much earlier. Also some players like me who had lots of duplicate cards lost out on lots of Gear Coins due to the GC cap.

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Hello. My name is Billy. I’m 4 now.

I told my mommy that people wouldn’t play the game my way.

She asked if I could play with others that played the way I liked. I said yes, but it wasn’t fair.

Mommy said I shouldn’t talk to the bad speed runners anymore.

Really? I never had any problems with it. I suppose my aim was never to max out all the Purple Cards available & not max out every skill card on every class. I played in specific ways which restricted my options from the get-go which made it really easy to get to where i needed (skill-card-wise). Ironically what was the most grind-orientated thing for me was getting to Max Class Level as i felt that the c.x.p was quite poor.

As far as the base Credit Drop-Rate & all of it’s tweaks throughout the course of G4s lifecycle, there were a multitude of ways to earn them. XP Bounties leading to quicker Level-Ups which granted a lump some of Credits upon each level-up. There was someone who actually worked out the most time-efficient stratagem to earn Credits …

It was something like for the first x amount of levels per Re-Up XP Bounties would get you farther then after which the Credit Bounties would net you more Credits per time spent. I was quite effective @ using these other sub-systems to earn Credits. So i remember G4 as having a wide range of Credit accrual options available when compared to G5s system.

Ah, you wanted to obtain everything. I suppose this is where i have to sub-specify the RnG systems in comparison (G4/G5) to only hunting for Skill-Cards & literally nothing else.

Yes this would have been one of my counter-arguments made. 19 Classes so a lot more skill-cards to chase with only 1/3 main builds per sub-class (it’s what it is for me as classes were sliced up further)

The Scrap-System was perfectly fine for me in G4 as there was still something to retrieve from all those ‘lost-packs’ that did not contain the purples that i was after. As i was hunting for any purple card that would be scrapped to go towards the purple card the i was chasing.

I had loads of spare Credits to go through massive pack openings once every week or so. But i guess it was still due to the specific nature of my Credit spending plans in G4.

#1 I was not aiming to collect everything, just skill-cards.
#2 I quickly eliminated the fat pertaining to the skill cards i’d rarely use & only eye-off specific Blue or Purple skill-cards that i was chasing.

Was this the reason that G4 gave me the illusion of it’s over all RnG/Skill-Card accrual system as being so much more beneficial when in comparison to G5s system??

All in all i’d favor a slot/classless based system in G6 meaning …

X number of slots (let’s say 5) with an open pool of cards being able to be assigned however we would like.

This would be such a simplistic solution opening up the door of an innumerable amount of build options for us.

Your thoughts on my proposal for G6 ‘Class/less’ system??

How dare you avoid my big posting & then decide to hit me with one of your own after i make you aware of my original posting! :wink: