I was showing the game to my nephew and brother last night. We mostly buy gears because of horde mode. Some things I like and some things I don’t like about this horde. Mainly I cant build manned turrets anymore but the tri shots and other heavy weapons compensate for that with their mobility. This horde put more importance on the weapon lockers. I also don’t like the fact only engineers can upgrade fortifications now. Not that I mind playing engineer but I don’t want to feel we have to have one. In gears 4 the three of us would play horde offline cause we don’t want randoms ruining our fun. Problem was one of us had to be engineer and another had to be scout for power. That left only one of us playing what we wanted. I do like the ults and so far none of the class’s feel overpowered. Last gears the heavy next to a weapons locker full of salvos was way too strong. I certainly don’t miss the loot boxes.
Anyway last night we were playing horde and I tried playing as Jack. Was different but kind of fun. My issue is with the forge. From what I gathered it’s mainly something for jack to do on the side. You can pick up weapons you don’t want and dismantle them in the forge for power. At lvl 1 I threw in any weapon I could find and the power was the same regardless of weapon or amount of ammo, 20 power. The forge costs 10k. For the forge to pay for itself you would need to dismantle 500 weapons. We couldn’t upgrade it cause we didn’t have an engineer but I’m sure higher lvls rewards more power but whats the point? I was browsing Jacks skill cards and he does get perks that increase the amount of power from the forge but at the insane cost of the forge vs the little amount it gives it doesn’t feel viable. At base Jack would need to dismantle 500 guns for the forge to pay for itself. That is a lot of flying around picking up weapons instead of shielding your team or zapping the horde. Upgrading the forge only adds to the debt. I’m doing this from memory but I think at lvl 1 Jacks dismantle perk adds another 50% power. 50% of 20 equals 30…wow. It cuts the pay off down to 333.33 guns which is a nice reduction but that is still an insane amount of guns needed for a fort to pay for itself.
To me it feels like unless you have max perks for dismantling it feels like the forge isn’t worth getting. The cost of the thing sounds like it’s better spent elsewhere. The game only came out yesterday but I’ve been playing since like fri cause I preordered it. Is there something I’m missing about the forge? Cause my first impression of it is the amount of power given back /cost of the forge needs to be tweaked.
I agree it is worth doing the math to know how long before the Forge can cover its investment, because it is extra work to collect and dismantle weapons.
Did you get 20 power from dismantling or did each person in your squad get 20 power (20x3=60 or 20x5=100), Any time you receive power, I believe everyone on your team should also get the same amount. Though I don’t have leveled up cards and haven’t leveled up a forge yet, I am curious to see if the forge becomes more lucrative.
Levelling up a forge and Jacks smelting ability ends up giving you tons of power.
Especially if you have a Del with a discount on fortificatios lessening the initial investment cost from 10K.
Ok I figured I was missing something. ty
As for power I’ll have to check if I get power or if everyone gets power.
Everyone gets power when Jack breaks down forge.
Just to add, any player can recycle weapons at the Forge and gets power/money. It pays its way after the upgrades, but only as long as your team consistently recycle weapons. It takes a team effort though as normal characters often want to carry two main weapons around, so will need Weapon Lockers to stow weapons you intend to use in order to pick up ones intended to be recycled.
It’s better now that I know everyone gets power when something is broken down but do bots factor into that? If I break something do they also get power, is there power divided among the real players or do we get more power the more human players we have?
doh. but the more human players we have the more power we get from dismantling right?
Ok now it makes more sense. 20 each for 1 gun, 5 people+1 gun = 100 power. 100 guns would pay for the forge. Divide that by 5 people, each person breaks 25 guns and it pays for itself. No perks or upgrades.
I think I’ve got the Jack skill Optimizer up to 150% now? When it was 100% and forge lvl2, I got 60ish power per weapon. Also, some weapons do earn more. Gnashers give about 30 base nrg and Salvos 40 iirc.
And my reasoning would be that over all the waves, I might get an average of 10 weapons per wave (a few at starting waves, an army worth near the end). So 50 x 10 per wave for me, 500 x 10 per 10 waves, so past 20 waves is a profit for me with a base forge. 10 weapons per wave is very conservative probably.
Last night I was in a random group that stuck around till wave 50. The engineer upgraded the forge to lvl 4. I had like 100% bonus to dismantling on jack. I think we got like 240-480 depending on the weapon. No clue what was the cost to upgrade the forge to that lvl.
To put it simply, the forge is a waste of time and money, so forth, completely useless, with perks or not.
Youre off on your calcs its 100 bottom tier weapons, higher weapons can get double that id est an enforcer is 20 with no modifiers on level 1 but a boomshot you dont need is 40 without any modifiers on level 1. Everybody gets the power from the forge so divide by 5 for a full team as the full team can also contribute to get it earlier as well. That also helps you determine if its worth it, with ammo being an issue encouraging people using handheld weapons to keep two of them and Jack getting the bonus its meant for him with that skill for full teams as a long term investment that pays off in the end combine that with Del’s discount on building it that makes it easier still to recover the initial investment. It’s definitely doable and with people pooling their power you can definitely notice the higher power potential from a Jack making good use of the Forge, but its not for everybody since its an investment and requires time to pay off.
I think one improvement with the forge would be to have it balanced based on number of players, so that you’re always getting the 100 power. So, 5 players each gets 20, 4 players 25 each, 3 players 33 each, 2 players 50 each, and 1 player 100. Otherwise, squads less than 4 or 5 players wil unlikely ever have any use for it.
Id love that change. I play horde with my brother and his son. My brother is very anal about randoms so we normally have only 3 people in the room.
If they were going to do that one would think theyd do it for all the energy, Less people from all sources and the gain from the forge when building the forge is optional to begin with is the least of the issues with having 1/5 or 2/5 if you want to play with small group.
Can’t really speak to all sources, but I can say that the way the forge is currently setup to work for smaller teams, it seems useless from what i see. Playing horde as a 2 man team is doable, buying a forge as a 2 man team doesn’t make any sense right now. If it gave the full 100 regardless of team size this would make sense.
On smaller teams it is a poor choice but that’s because all power is always divided evenly and none of the power is actually increased for smaller teams resulting in 1/5 of the power gain for each player regardless of how many players you have, id est it’s not just a Forge problem. Horde is doable as a 2 player team, but only up to a point, your chances of beating higher levels of horde would increase if they’d scale the power based on number of players so every team is working with the same amount of power instead of punishing players for not having a full team when quitting is common as is. Additionally when a player quits I feel like the power they have on them should be auto-deposited it’d help instances where instead of leaving the player got legitimately disconnected though you’d still have those that burn their power and then leave intentionally, but can’t fix everything.