Casual-Friendly Approach to Horde Mode / No Class-Based System?

Anybody thinks that this was one biggest mistake of Gears of War 4 Horde? While The Coalition was known as Black Tusk back around Judgment period, Overrun and Survival were the first game modes in Gears of War to actually feature class based system. Having Engineer, Soldier, Sniper and Medic. It wasn’t even anything close to Horde Mode, and each classes were already limited to what weapons could be picked up, they were only allowed to use weapons they spawned with.

Now we have Horde 3.0 in Gears of War 4, which is basically carrying over the class based system into a Horde mode, but does it actually work successfully? It is nice we could choose to equip any weapons and do similar roles to each other, but it isn’t very casual players friendly. Many people complained about what each other do, and there is a currency system involved using power shared among everyone. Having to play pinata as Scout, other classes collecting power when not Scout, anybody building from Fab even without discounts. Even casual players especially, not realising which weapons they’re mostly likely to do more Damage with that relates to their class role. Even more of a reason is because of quitters, some choose to leave a match if don’t have the right class composition, so why can’t everyone play the same role, just no classes?

Looking back at Gears of War 2 and 3, Horde 1.0 and 2.0, would a casual player have the problem we face now in Gears of War 4 Horde. 3.0? No, because it’s not really that complicated with do’s and don’t or advanced strategies, class limitations. When a newer player or casual gamer hops into Hardcore, Insane or above, the peers usually have high expectations of them and usually judge based on if under Re-up 1. I want to be able to do well and not be held back by other players or if we are missing an Engineer or Scout. Even if I have a lower rank or casual player in the same match, so a class based system shouldn’t affect us all, It’d be easier to carry some players or try to lone wolf, and the newer players could see through examples and be able to replicate what the experienced players are doing. But not like us both being Scout, or both of us being Engie. Just no classes.

I feel that the class based system should be completely stripped, and make every player individual with similar damage output and abilities, perks and such. That way, a newer player should be able to do as well as more experienced players without having to fund for loads of Credits in turn for more Horde Skills and so on, putting more time and dedication in. Anyways, what do you think? I personally would prefer no classes, but the Horde Skills system to stay like maybe allowing up to 10 cards on one character. And nobody having to go out and collect the currency from defeated enemies, we should simply move onto the next kill and use our acquired/earned currency to spend on, like in Gears of War 3 Horde 2.0. A player that doesn’t do much killing or work should have less to spend than a player who does the opposite, but more killing or work.

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Agree completely

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Interesting and completely valid opinion, but here’s another one: keep the classes, maybe even create a new one and expand the skill system, the complex the better.

What about new / casual players? create a decent tutorial and achievement section where players only get to acquire skills and higher difficulties by successfully completing class-related tasks. You’re new to the game or are a casual player? then you get the “casual horde experience”; you completed several tasks and earned some achievements? then you get the “Hardcore Horde experience”.

With something like this we wouldn’t have to worry about reups-1 playing engineer on inconceivable with no clue at what they’re doing. Players that have taken the time and effort to learn the game and are looking for a challenge, shouldn’t be forced to play with people who are looking for a “Casual experience”.

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@Belkain Let’s say the class based system was to stay, including Scout and Engineer.
Even if wasn’t newer or casual players, the experienced players on Inconceivable still quit on each other because we don’t have the right class composition.
How is that supposed to be solved or reduced?
Simply by have no classes, that’s why I’m opting for that.

There isn’t a tutorial from Gears of War 2, 3 or 4 either.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was no form of tutorial for Gears of War 5 Horde either.
If they’re not gonna have some sort of tutorial, then the least that could happen is make the Horde mode easy to pick up and do pretty well in, avoid the confusion with classes.
There was none of that in Gears 2 and 3.

Another alternative would be that if class system was to stay and continue, then I’d like the Engineer and Scout classes to be completely removed.
So players could excel in maybe Sniper, Soldier, Heavy and maybe other (new) class(s) but everyone still having the ability to get our own power/currency and all of us to build too.

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@Ektope A progression / achievements system would reduce this by placing people of similar skill together. The ones that play on higher difficulties will have no problem adapting because they would have proved they can manage in most situations.

TC already tried to please everyone by splitting the versus community with 2 different tunings and that didn’t worked out so well. I enjoy Horde because it allows for different play styles, you remove the classes and you kill that; “no classes and common cards for everyone?” I think that would be even worse.

No scout or engineer? yeah that’s quitting reason #1 but I still think it best to keep the classes (the more the merrier) than remove them.

You clearly have thought this through by weighting pros and cons and I think that’s great, so I only have one question: what’s the endgame? If there’s no classes and everyone’s got the same perks how do you filter easy from inconceivable? 1-50 iron man 1 hit and you’re dead? (I know, a bit extreme but was the first thing that came to mind).

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I’m not sure how progression system would reduce the quitting from undesired class compositions, especially when missing Engineer/Scout.
Unless you mean that players are required to beat Hardcore to unlock Insane, then beat Insane to unlock Inconceivable, then that could work to catch up with the basics of what to expect.
Even Gears 2 and 3 were Normal Difficulty by default.
But there can always be cases when five players have Inconceivable unlocked, and still someone doesn’t choose Engie or Scout… or they don’t do their role, which holds the rest of team back.
It’s been proven several times by all the fail stories, about Scouts hoarding Power, players building stuff from Fabricator without discounts which leads to fails and quits and so on. I’m sure you’d know.

In Horde, there can still be different kinds of play styles without any classes. When I mention about having to allow up to 10 Horde Skills maybe, from Level 1 to 6 cards. It could be mixed up, some elements from Engineer, Scout, Sniper, Soldier and Heavy. Even more customisation. So I could use:

  1. $ Boost (Deposit Bonus).
  2. Repair Boost/Efficiency.
  3. Sentry Cost.
  4. Sniper Strike.
  5. Headshot Damage.
  6. Explosive Headshot.
  7. Precision Rifle Damage.
  8. Called Shot.
  9. Magic Bullet.
  10. Explosive Launcher Damage.

How can the different play styles be limited if you could mix and match different elements from all the original five Horde classes? It would please both audiences, a middle ground between no classes and still customisation. With the above setup, I could possibly use my own Sentries, Sniper Strikes, both EMBAR and Dropshot/Torque Bow setup.

What do you mean by filtering Casual from Inconceivable? It could be similar to Gears of War 2 and 3 Health and Damage Mutators, which also progress and improve on Wave 20, 30, 40 and 50. There should be some Health Perks to use from the Scout class, like Level 6 Health Boost to add part of the 10 cards customisation.

Just basics, it doesn’t garantee a quality player.

And this system is cheatable. All you gotta do is run private and leech a friend.

If classes and cards persist on next Gears, a lock related to level should be applied.

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I do think that there should be a barebones Horde hopper like how Gears 2 Horde was. It’s nice to be able to sometimes not have to worry about all the extras and just hunker down and team up with other players to win Horde with just the basic weapons and no defenses.

This is why I like playing as a Soldier. I was never one to invest in defenses. I just like shooting.

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True, in no way having all the cards at your disposal could be considered limited, actually its the opposite but no matter how I look at it, having ALL the cards available takes away all the fun. I like the idea of having more damage cards at the expense of health cards for example, otherwise the game would be way too easy killing the replay value.

Couldn’t agree more.

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This. I made a thread on the old forums suggesting that Horde 2 as an ‘Oldschooler’ mode should return.

I loved blocking an entrance with a meatshield and hunkering down with 4 other team mates. Running out to grab ammoa nd weapons, salvaging what we could from the field and then trying to survive the next wave.

Throw in the old Cylcops characters that would rage charge at you with a chainsaw and it was a fantastic time.

I don’t mind the newer systems of Horde, it feels more fortification-esque survive if you can. But I do miss the GoW2 horde mode.

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Many games have implemented class systems and have worked well. Horde is no exception. I personally would rather just prefer a Gears 2 system in horde but there is a valid argument to be made for the class system.

The easiest way to solve the problem with casuals are FORCED TUTORIALS for every class. That should be a requirement. As well as a lock on difficulty. Beat Casual to get to normal normal to hardcore and so on. Even people who know what they are doing and know Gears like the back of their hand. That would really help solve the issue of people not knowing what the hell they are doing.

Because when I have a good game of horde with good teammates, it is a great experience.

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I agree with OP 100% and Horde 3.0 is the worst one imo because of it. Fortifications are fine and I have no real problem with that, but the classes make me not want to play because I hate having to be the designated scout or were missing an engineer or we “need” a heavy.

I used to jump into horde back in the day to get away from pvp when it got too frustrating but now horde is even MORE of a chore then what it used to be. At least I hope they can make a split in the next Gears and have a class and no class option.

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Gears 4 Horde is kind of an exception. Mainly because players are more likely to quit because of each others’ roles. Engineer and Scout being necessary to beat all 50 Waves easily (Ignore 5-man Soldiers), other games don’t have problems with a certain class being absent. In Fortnite, players wouldn’t quit on each other just because a Rescue Trooper, Ninja, Construction (?) class were absent. In Team Fortress 2 or Overwatch, most players wouldn’t mind whatever classes other players were. But in Gears of War 4, it seems to matter a lot. Not everyone wants to be Engie nor Scout, sometimes we have games in lobby where nobody chooses it. Or multiple players as Engineers, how to please them both when one or both might quit?

A feature similar to tutorial would help a lot to get used to the basic, I don’t understand why it was never implemented in the past. Maybe Epic or TC thought players didn’t need to know the basics, all those could have been learned in the Campaign during Fabricator scene or that Horde is really simple and easy to pick up.

Even if players have completed the tutorial and all the lower Difficulties to access Inconceivable, they might still quit unless something’s done about the Engineer/building role and Scout power/currency collection.

@Phaaze @anon22475829 If we went back to Gears of War 2 Horde 1.0, that’d be great. I wouldn’t really mind. You know why? Because even players who often play Versus, they could easily pick up the Horde mode and do well in that. Some of the more experienced players in Horde have complained about those Horde events having “Versus players” joining with low Re-ups, low class levels and probably low levelled skills. If those could be completely removed and we went back to original Horde with no Horde Skills either, anyone could have an easier time but it might last over 1 hour, 30+ minutes or 2+ hours. Not that I would mind. Even means we could access all the weapons with similar Damage output.

But from a business point of view or to encourage microtransactions, RNG loot boxes and such. They may decide to have something though, not sure what they could come up with something new. Or just simply Horde Skills all over again.

@xValtiel What Horde 1.0 and 2.0 has that 3.0 doesn’t, is the freedom of roles. I liked to do pretty much everything, or anything that others could do. Didn’t really want to have to choose one, and stick with it for the entire Horde match of hours. Engineers and Scouts might want to join in the fight and use hand held weapons with decent Damage. The other three classes might want to make use of their Strike Skills, but Engineers not providing or sparing currency for them. They should earn themselves like Horde 2.0, remember Command Centers?

I agree. Make the power auto deposit into the fabricator.

Having to run around the map like a dog fetching a bone is so so boring.

Apart from that, I’m relatively happy with the class system… Bar skills being locked behind RNG loot crates until you get the first card.

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