Can someone explain crossing to me?

Gears 4
#1

So i never seen it too much in past Gears of wars but it seems extremely common for guys to 5 man team a bunch of randoms on core TD. Due to disappointment in Gears 4 i didnt play the first year but now im back to this.

Now i dont know if its just core but it feels broken. I dont see the counter to it unless you’re also squading up.

Every fight you go into has you being sprayed by his buddy from across the map and often ends in spawn trapping.

Is it this bad in Comp and do people really want this to be the future of Gears?

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#2

It’s easier to counter in Competitive because the Lancer isn’t as strong but yeah, it is a problem in Core.

On certain maps, who ever wins the initial fight basically wins the round if the teams are sweaty. I remember last season the team had a pretty hard set up to counter so the next round we just got the kill lead, sat back in spawn with all power weapons and waited out the timer.

It was boring but you had to play that way to beat this stack. It’s a problem with Core in that stacks can just abuse the overpowered tuning

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#3

If you’re playing ranked, crossing is common. Doesn’t matter if you’re playing core or comp. I do believe the lancer is really strong in core, so I try to stick to comp but having 2 game modes isn’t much fun.
And spawn trapping depends on the people you’re playing against. It sucks but not much can be done. Most gears maps have a huge spawn area so your best bet is to try to take advantage of spawn protection.

#4

A cross is when you get shot at from 2 different directions. Hence the term “cross” because you are making an X with your bullet streams basically. Unlike other shooters where this can happen, in Gears it’s a very important part of the way the game works, because when you get crossed that basically means you are locked from pushing forward, and in some cases locked to your current position until you get support fire to get you out. In most shooters, line of sight is the only factor in a cross, where Gears it’s line of sight, available cover, and how you move around said cover.

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#5

I feel like crossing is more of a thing in this gears because there is now a ranking system and people want to climb the ladder.

Similarly, people stack up in ranked because that’s the best way to move up the ranks.

#6

Crossing has always been a thing, it’s just that some hosts got so salty about it in Gears 1 that they would just boot anyone using a Lancer. Crossing is a natural part of the game, just look at some cover is positioned. On Gridlock, if my team gets control of snipe tower, and we have 1 guy on our side Boom, I can cross you out on your side Boom and force you away (or kill you), allowing my team to get Boom. The map was built that way so you could get shot from 2 directions, which forces you to move, because otherwise you die.

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#7

So the meta is more pre planning picking certain spots to sit in and a shooting a lancer from that spot all game, even to the point of letting the timer run out?

Its sort of like camping in COD, yeah youll get less deaths but as gamers we draw that line for better gameplay.

I dont mind crossing but with the current damage its insane. The type of crossing your talking about on Gridlock is what i know but some of the stuff im seeing in Gears 4 is insane, People hiding in what seems random locations but in reality is keeping you from even leaving your spawn and they will not move the whole game, they are more than happy to let the time go to 0.

In the past it was to gain advantage of a power weapon or gain a better position, now its just about locking a team in spawn with 0 desire to fight.

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#8

@ProGear360 I believe the OP is making the same argument that you were on twitter to Ryan Cleven.

#9

Link?

Cant tell if you think i copied what he said or that thankfully someone agrees with me.

I dont want the future of Gears to be sitting in certain places with lancers. Im not even a bad player so i can only imagine how new players struggle with this. Gears is meant to be hard but these “tactics” can be abused by squads.

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#10

He agreed with you and posted a video or two to highlight the issue. Will edit in the link as soon as I find it.

Edit: https://twitter.com/ProGear360/status/1008903221937664000

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#11

Man i wish you didnt link it, the dude making our games has the response of “Please don’t stand in the open with two lancers firing at you”

Its like saying “dont let an enemy ever shoot you to avoid death.”. if this is the mentality at TC then Gears 5 aint looking good. He gets melted and didnt even have time to roll, yet this is supposed to be the core/more friendly settings?

So the future is to get a 5 man squad, sit in specific spots, laser people down and spawn trap them?

Honestly i gave TC a chance with Gears 4, i had the belief that they made Gears 4 almost a beta test for the new direction but dont be shocked if Gears 5 has the RNG horde mode, skins locked behind packs, Poor PC port, two weapon tunings, less content etc…

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#12

I do understand that the lancer should beat gnasher at range, especially with a few people shooting at a single target in a 5v5 game. Stacks tend to have better tactics and supporting fire than random groups and it should be reflected in gameplay IMO. That being said if it prevents anyone being able to get close to the ring it does defeat the point of the losing team being able to go for the ring.

So either a nerf would help, or going back to Gears 2 Koth. The ring doesnt move, at least one player needs to stand in the ring, players do not respawn while their team is in the ring. This allows for the team who hasn’t capped the ring to focus on taking out enemies and then getting to the ring. It also allows the team with the ring to sacrifice some points to leave the ring and get their dead teammates back.

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#13

I Remember how bad it was on launch when you run into a squad all using that powerful hammer slash retro burst. It wasn’t even fun at all getting hammer burst down from afar

#14

No meta is taking up tactical positions that allow you the most map control. The game is meant to be tactical, strategic. You are supposed to optimize your positions as a team.

Core damage is broken AF, that’s been known for a while. Crossing in competitive is not nearly as effective and you can definitely break setups with proper tactics and movement.

Generally speaking, teams that do nothing but stay back and cross do no win. Why? Because they don’t get the map control they need nor do they take the advantages they should. A good player will push forward to gain more map control when possible.

I feel like you are talking about TDM Blood Drive. Unfortunately, there’s not much you can do to break the setup. The WORST decision you can make is to challenge them. The best decision you can probably make is to just take control of midmap, snipe/Tbow, and your nades, then try to pick them off. This should actually be rather easy since there isn’t that many places they can really hide, throwing frags in the right spots can net you a few kills almost guaranteed. Once you flush them out of their nades, go in and take control of it. From there it’s mostly going to be a losing fight for them, especially if they refuse to push out to take back the map from you.

Crossing is a vital part of the game that. One could argue it is even like 50% of the game, where the other 50% is CQC battles. You have to look at the game tactically, like a chess board, and position yourself/your team in such a way that you control the game. Campers will camp, but again in this game it’s usually a losing strat. Only time camping wins is if the other team comes at you with no strat and kinda gives you a win by making very stupid mistakes.

#15

I partly agree and disagree with you, oh and this post definitely stemmed from the Blood drive BS.
No matter what Gears 5 best not have that lancer from core.

I dont mind crossing where i rush sniper on Gridlock, take out that enemy and lay down fire from the side opponents boomshot side. Thats fine, you just need awareness to counter that.

I dont agree that crossing is or should be 50/50 with CQC, It needs to be 75% CQC due to the risk that comes with it, yes the Gnasher is powerful but you have to risk your own life to get close, a solo players has a chance at beating a 5man gnasher team whereas a 5 man lancer team is practically unstoppable.

Not just that they get the benefit of higher rate of fire, range, ammo capacity, low recoil etc… opponents cant even kill you becasue if you go down, you’re behind cover and can easily get back up, it can be abused to easily by those willing to let the timer run down as they have the slight lead, theyu just go back to sitting in the same spots. Simply put, you cant ever have the lancer be on the same stats as the Gnasher due to the risk vs reward.

Im not denying of course 5 players should be better then randoms but they should have the risk of dying too and in a game like Gears, its having the enemy having to engage in a close fight.

Something being a tactic doesn’t make it fair or fun, camping is a tactic and is the smart play in games like Fortnite and COD, it is however looked down upon due to the gameplay being boring. I literally could place 1st or second every game if i just hid everygame and let everyone else kill each other yet noone does it and games arent built around encouraging it.

I dont want to lead this too far off but terrorists have “tactics” that work, that doesnt mean youll see the US,UK etc… using them.

#16

Wouldn’t a solo only que solve this?
It’s almost always a stack that goes for the spawn trap, I’ve rarely seen randoms manage it, certainly never hold it for long.
The only reason it ever seems to work is the communication involved.
If you’re playing solo with 9 other solos you’d rarely see this pulled off.
Likewise if you’re re playing 5 v 5 or even 5v3+2 it’s going to be alot harder to gain that much leverage.

#17

Im open to this, ive even made a discussion on it on ways solo only modes can be made.

#18

Gnasher is not a team weapon though. It is a solo weapon.

In a 1v1, Lancer really isn’t that effective because it’s easy to avoid. It gets stronger as you increase the number of players using it (ie. it is stackable). But Gnasher doesn’t. Whether you have 1v1 or a 1v5, the effectiveness of the Gnasher is more or less the same. In fact, it’s part of the reason you can outplay 2 people in CQC because them having 2 Gnashers on you isn’t stackable. It’s more like 2 1v1’s than a 1v2.

And no CQC should not be 75% of the game. All that does is increase the chaos, which decreases the chance for skill to actually shine through. When you have 2 full teams pile on the hill in KOTH it’s more or less a crapshoot who comes out on top. There’s no tactics, no predictability. It’s whoever is left standing, and when there are that many players engaging in chaotic gameplay you can’t reliably predict the outcome, and that’s because the risk of dying is significantly higher in a Gnasher fight than a Lancer fight. A simple mistake, even one made by the best player in the game, can result in a death. A simple mistake in a Lancer fight does not end the same way.

Lancer cross is very one dimensional and easy to beat. The fact that you can only really cross specific cover points from other specific cover points means that there will always be a gap in the defense. Core decreases that gap significantly because the weapons are god awful OP, but in competitive it is very easy to get around a cross. And if you are getting crossed from 3 or more spots all that means is you have bad positioning. It doesn’t mean the Lancer is too strong or that camping is too good, it means you put yourself in a ■■■■■■ spot.

What you’re basically asking for is to remove tactical gameplay and make the game more chaotic, and thus less predictable or based on skill. If there was no way to play defensively then all people would ever do is fly at you with Gnasher because it’s the only effective option. The game should reward offense and risk taking, but not to the point that strategy gets thrown out the window.

My advice to you if you don’t like core Lancer is to play competitive. I totally agree core is BS, but that’s not actually the core game despite the name. It’s more the casual side of the game, for players that don’t know how to optimize or don’t understand the fundamentals of the game. It’s for people to just kinda do whatever with whatever and it works. But in competitive it doesn’t work. You have to use the right weapon for the right job. You have to use tactics and positioning to your advantage. You have to have to take risks to get rewarded.

Stop thinking of core as what Gears is supposed to be because it’s not. Gears 1, Gears UE, and Gears 4 competitive is what Gears is supposed to be, and IMO is disingenuous of TC to make the majority of the player base believe they are better at the game than they actually are, because eventually that just leads to people not getting better and instead just relying on the strength of the weapons to do the work for them. In UE I could tell the players that only ever played Gears 3 because they have absolutely no clue how to actually play the game. They don’t understand positioning and crossing. They don’t know how to properly play defensively. And they will always try some fancy BS right in front of you that gets them killed, because you can’t just spam A and get out of every situation. You have to take cover precisely and with intent.

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#19

this phrasing confused the buggers out of me, pelase explain.

#20

Exactly, I’m so happy that the hammer burst is now a pickup. It is way too strong for a loadout weapon.