That’s why I specified a bad imitation of the great work Joveus has done, most of it I can’t even remember off the top of my head for how well documented and thorough it was.
This is more doable at my speed.
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I’m basically in agreement with you. A few things I need to point out:
KANTUS:
Joveus also postulated that the Kantus were the ancient, original Locust.
RIFTWORM:
Since its body is linear, there is only one real path through it. Therefore, it follows that certain segments of the worm were specialized for digestion. That’s why Baird calls the acid spouts “the stomach” (if I recall).
Riftworms are the in-universe explanation for the Hollow. They created and fertilized those massive tunnels and caves. They probably played a role in the creation of Imulsion, which has since evolved and multiplied until it fills more and more of the Hollow.
SWARM KANTUS
I just want to see Scion Kantus and Scion Berserkers! Not surprised that Wretches went extinct, but that was also disappointing.
Bloodmounts… Corpsers… Kinda glad those went extinct.
I always wanted to see Lambent Kantus, too. Those could have been awesome. Still not sure if they were planned for Gears 3, and cut for time/resources, or if they were purposefully left out as an implication.
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Sounds like a Boomer(sometimes), has the lower body half of a Boomer, has a mutated arm with a long blade attached to it which looks like the Cleaver… looks much like a mutated Butcher to me where Lambency created a form for the host that incorporated the Cleaver into its body for close range defense while having the ability to lob Imulsion ‘bombs’ at range. There may also be a video out there somewhere analyzing the Gunker for what it is.
There is one thing on the time frame though… if New Hope stopped being active 10-30 years into the Pendulum Wars, how do you explain Sid? A collectible in Gears 5 talks of “Private Redburn” being stationed at New Hope, as it is a letter he attempted to send to the current COG chairman to reveal what Niles is doing there, but it gets intercepted in a mailroom and never apparently leaves the facility until Kait and Del get back in there(how Marcus and Dom never found said letter, I wouldn’t know, but maybe certain wind problems conveniently placed it there, or it’s just a hole in the plot(?)) and find it.
Of course we don’t know his age at that time, but it’s probably likely he was around 18-20 years old(unless the COG conscripted civilians at a younger age than that due to the war, but that seems highly unlikely given the way the letter is written). If New Hope ended 10 or 20 years into the Pendulum Wars, Sid would almost be ancient by the time the Locust started E-Day, 80-90 years old. Almost certainly not in a condition to fight like he is in Tactics.
So even being generous and saying New Hope ended 30 years into the Pendulum Wars, that leaves 50 years between then and E Day, a year after which Tactics happens in the timeline iirc. So Sid would likely be approaching his 70s by that time if my age estimate was accurate, and even accepting a premise of Seran humans being biologically tougher and/or less susceptible to the effects of aging(which seems like it would be fair given the things that Sera throws at its inhabitants), I would find it very doubtful he’d be fighting Locust and charging around battlefields like Gabe who looks to be in his 40s(unless I’m that terrible at judging ages) at the time of that game occurring, or younger people whose bodies would still be capable of handling more physical activity.
So what am I trying to say? Either Sid is an anomaly or just odd writing, or New Hope doesn’t happen until halfway into the war. Or I’m totally wrong on the physical endurance of Serans and how aging affects their body.
Oh, and there is also the Kadar lab thing that I think should be taken into account because the creation of the Locust or their ‘perfection’ seemingly occurred there, as well as Myrrah and Ukkon making it away with the Locust from there after killing Niles(albeit without the Matriarch, given that we get to have Berserker throwbacks but worse when it gets out of its tank).
I wonder if Scions are capable of reproduction after their evolution and the purge of Imulsion from their bodies(which has formed crystals on their skin in the process if it didn’t go into forming the Locust shells?). They certainly seem to understand they need to have reproductive capabilities, unless the Swarm Hunter seemingly being a “female” Swarm Drone isn’t an indication, but it’s unclear if they can do it themselves.
insert obligatory “Don’t ‘Swarm’ Kait” statement here
Might get the chance to ask today, apparently there doing a lore-based stream instead of the usual dev stream.
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I am hoping this thread gets noticed before the livestream.
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So do I, would be an interesting topic that I hope doesn’t get shut-down.
This makes sense, but again with my idea that Niles studied the Kantus and then made his own Locust off that archetype, I could see Ukkon doing the same with the Rockworms we find in the Hollow. Like how he created Brumaks and Corpsers (Right, wasn’t that alluded to in Tactics?) I could see the Riftworm in Gears 2 being a Locust project of sorts based on just how comically large it is, and the fact that I don’t see how such large organisms (even underground) could avoid the COG’s advanced technology–I can see them not noticing the Locust part because of Niles and Monroe covering it up, but also because of the Pendulum Wars occupying the COG’s time, but I feel like a massive 3-mile long worm would’ve been noticed at some point, right? In all their 13,000 years of history on Sera? (Assumption since civilized Humanity on Earth is roughly 12,020 years old)
That’s also my idea about how the Drones evolved to be more Kantus-like, so as the original Locusts (who went extinct because they couldn’t be cocooned and evolve) the Drones evolved to become Scions, somewhere in the middle of Locust and Kantus.
I was gonna present the Matriarch but I guess she’s technically a Locust huh? And there are no new ones in the story, like in Horde. But the Warden nearly fills that role, but it would be interesting to see more Locust archetypes return. Gears 4/5 only has like 5 Drone variants each with standard/elite versions, like three scions and the Carriers and Snatchers. Whereas playing Gears 2 there’s a new type of Drone revealed in nearly every act and they all have different guns and looks, as the Swarm all look the same.
Juvies are close to Wretches, nearly a reskin but they’re a lot less threatening and more annoying to me rather than the bulkier ambushes of Wretches in dark corners that Wretches would go for.
I always liked the Corpser fights, but Bloodmounts–looked goofy and were kind of annoying, but they made sense to the Locust. It’s strange how little ground-transportation the Locust have.
This is also where my mind goes, and why I pointed out that there’s a Lambent Archetype to every Locust subclass (Drone, Boomer, Wretch, Berserkers, even Leviathan and Brumaks). But for some reason there’s no Lambent Kantus, not even in any concept art I can find which kind of stops me from thinking that it was cut for time, because if it was cut I’d assume that there’d at least be concept art of it, but the closest to concept art I can find is an Armored Kantus Hedgehog boy and it looks to be breathing fire, or an Immulsion type substance (It looks yellow) and that’s the closest I’ve gotten, as long as this concept art is legitimate, but it’s not actually Lambent just a variation of the Armored Kantus as we know now that their mouths do glow yellow when screaming. The only Kantus that really has Immulsion to do with them is Ukkon, but his is obviously consensual.
Well the explanation of a Butcher’s cleaver being taken by the Lambency does make sense, as Butchers were some of the most common Boomer-class Locust in Gears 3 as resources became scarce, and when the Gunkers attack you with the blade it does make the metallic-cleaver sound effect instead of something more, biological.
Well I think it’s important to know that there’s multiple sections of New Hope, maybe I did my math wrong (I was correlating Myrrah’s age to the shutdown of New Hope, so if she’s 70~ in Gears 3 I assumed it would’ve been shut down 60 some years before E-Day) but also, there’s the upper area of New Hope, with the fake warehouse and inner labs, and then in Gears 5 we discover the even deeper labs that were forced to be shut down. The timeline is all screwy but it makes me wonder if the COG discovered the original Sires and Niles was ordered to stop, hence why they went into a Stasis sleep and he says that he wanted to return years later and continue studying them, and then return to the sub-base where he continued work on the Locust and Sires undercover until the COG stationed at the above-ground facility caught wind of Niles’ secret testing, maybe Sid? And that’s when the siege happened as we see all the COG Gears attacking his base?
I believe Marcus wasn’t allowed to join the COG until he turned 18, whether that’s because of the COG or because he wasn’t an adult and Adam wouldn’t sign off on it, I don’t know bu the 18 thing makes more sense.
And true, I wasn’t sold on the numbers more so throwing out a wider net. Using the assumption that Myrrah is 70~ in Gears 3, that means that New Hope might’ve ended 50 Years into the PW, instead of 30, tipping the scale ever so slightly, and making Sid about 50-60 years old as of Tactics, which would make more sense and is around Hoffman’s age too.
I’d assume that he’s in his early-mid 30’s. Marcus and Dom look older too but they’re only 32-ish in Gears 3. I could see Gabe being around their age, if not a little older.
The hardest part is how much guesswork goes into everything, with things being softly retconned or left without answers, only for answers to come up in a totally different game, 12 years later, and yes we never get any solid evidence about their ages or physiology and genetics.
Another issue is the ambiguity of Locust reproduction, We know Corpsers lay eggs, probably the same for many Bestial Locust, and that they would R4pe Berserkers to force offspring, but that doesn’t explain Boomers, Kantus, Brumaks, Seeders, etc. So many loose ends. So far all we know with the Swarm is podding humans to create Drones, but I assume the Scions are at a fixed number being that they’re just Locust Drones evolved, so there may only be so many Scions for as many cocooned Drones after Adam’s device went off.
Spoiler alert
Summary
Prescott outright says Brumaks and Corpsers are Ukkon’s work when he tells Gabe his mission is to hunt him down. Some research has told me the helmets Brumaks and Corpsers wear are also Ukkon’s creation as they would be just as dangerous to the Locust as they are to humans without them, albeit I do not remember where I found this.
And Gunkers literally use the Cleaver fused/grown into their left arm. It seems to be exactly the same blade, judging by its shape and look. I always used to think the Imulsion mutation had created something semi-organic that was solid and used as a knife arm for the Gunker when I first played Gears 3 many years ago but it seems I was wrong about that.
And I think the whole Kadar lab happened after Monroe(or Munroe, I’m not sure what the name is) decided to put an end to Niles’ work at New Hope but some dissidents(so to speak as they were not looking to help or defect to the UIR) allowed him to continue the research on Imulsion at the Kadar lab which eventually lead to the creation of the Locust. I’m uncertain if it was actually ever discovered as well or remained hidden and the COG troops there were stationed in the lab under the guise of guarding some valuable location to the war effort by the people in the COG government that clearly were less concerned with ethics than creating tools to end the war quickly. Because the way some of them are frozen makes it seem more like they were standing there not as part of an attack force, but guards. Ones the Locust had to get past in order to get Myrrah and the remaining Locust out of there… those that didn’t get caught by Niles’ cryogenic lockdown, that is.
If my thoughts aren’t 100% clearly organized and the lack of quotes is not helping either, I’m sorry, but I feel really badly tired and lazy as a result.
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Has there been any sort of explanation as to how the Locust managed to create a functioning society in just 80-odd years? Between the architecture (both new and old), the hierarchy, the language, the religion, etc, realistically there’s no way all of those things could be created and spread out over such a long distance in less than a century.
And what exactly is the deal with the Locust/Swarm hive mind? I k ow the Swarm for-sure make use of a hive, but the Locust are described as being like that too, but their actual society shows the opposite. No individual drone in a hive mind would have any distinct personality or quirks, they’d essentially be mindless slaves to the queen, but Rise of RAAM and the fact that the Locust have a religion separate from the queen at all to speak of shows that they are capable of independent thought free from Myrrah’s (and presumably Kait assuming the Scions still work the same way as the former Locust) control and can act on their own and do their own thing. Basically, a hive mind doesn’t allow for free will.
The way the Locust and Swarm actually work as a species seems to change with every new game, unless there’s an obscure detail I missed in a book or other comic.
Mostly, all of the Locust would’ve come from the same place, and as Myrrah commands them (like we hear even in Raam’s Shadow) they have a connected hive mind like the Swarm.
This is because they’re all connected to the same mind (Myrrah/Matriarch) but they’re not all under the same command in a Hive Mind, simply able to receive orders from the Queen and be compelled. Like an Ant colony.
As a disclaimer @Joveus did the thread.
@BChaps copied it over from the old forums to keep the history alive.
Yes, but I still gave credit to both because if it was not for BChaps I (and maybe many others) would not have ever read Joveus’ work.
Maybe.
But it’s kind of like giving Webster’s credit for all the words in it.
Title is ok.
@Joveus who to my knowledge is done with the game, is fairly solely responsible for the research.
Yes I understand that, and sorta, if I never had Websters there’s a bunch of words I would never be able to comprehend. Or say recreations of The Time Machine by HG Wells, it’s one of my favorite books, but if nobody ever re-published copies I would’ve never read it.
Lol.
I’ve always loved your sense of humor.
Are you still working on your book?
Yessss…
I played through Gears 2 again recently to refresh my memory as I’m working on a section in that era of Gears, but I had been getting caught up with other projects I’m working on, as well as a major stint of depression in my IRl life atm. But I do hope to finish it by the end of 2020 or 2021. It’s just fallen on a backburner for me as Gears has bummed me out recently.
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Wish you well my man.
You were writing some good stuff as last I saw.
Life always gets in the way.
It’s what life does.
Always smile and enjoy for a bit.
You have some mad writing skills brother.
I’m not a writer. Always jealous of creativity.
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lol…yeah.
I know more about the lore than the average player…but that’s about it.
If you put me head-to-head with anyone who actually cares about the lore, I’d fail miserably 
side note…it sucks that we don’t have people taking up Parasidian’s old role of diving deep into the lore to find stuff.
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That’s not a proper hive mind then. Common drones in a proper hive wouldn’t have any autonomy to speak of, unlike the Locust. The Locust (meaning before any Swarm stuff) don’t behave like they’re actively controlled a la the Zerg from Starcraft or the Flood from Halo, more like soldiers following orders. The brief bit in G5 where Kait takes control of a handful of Swarm creatures in Oscar’s village is closer to true hive behavior since the creatures in question are straight up mindslaves, but this contradicts previously established Locust social behavior as seen in the Rise of RAAM, Could be interesting if Kait possibly has greater control over the Swarm than Myrrah or Reyna.
I’m probably just reading too much into it and it’s most likely that TC and Epic just didn’t know how hive minds actually work, but call the Locust/Swarm that anyway.
As for the Locust all coming from the same place, that arguably makes the size of their society make less sense. Granted, Sera’s size has never actually been stated, but if we assume it’s like Earth, they’d be traveling through tunnels by foot for literally years if not decades to establish anything even a quarter the size of their holdings in the lore. They have a continent-spanning network of territory that would have to be mapped, tamed, and outposts or towns built upon, presumably on foot or with only simple vehicles since realistically they wouldn’t have anything like cars in the Hollow, and accompanying supply lines and communication to and from their start point and each link in the migratory chain.
For reference, just look at how long it took the United States to acquire as much territory as it has, with the tech available to us in the real world. The window of time given to the development of the Locust just doesn’t work under scrutiny.
Agreed.
@Joveus always had my respect by caring enough to dive deeply.
You have mine (and always will) by caring (and thinking far enough ahead) to preserve it.
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However, the Locust are more brutal than humans, the Hollow is relatively flat and they do have technologies/mounts available. And the US taking so long to expand was more political than anything. I believe there was a law in place that said no one was able to break ground on territories West of the Louisiana purchase for so many years, while the Locust just constantly expanded.