Breaking News: Ryan Cleven is going off!

Man, I sincerely applaud this man. No, some of the specifics implemented into the game were not ideal but his general approach was good.

This is what started the conversation:

Some of his responses:

Someone give this man a beat right now, he rapping. Anyone here beatbox?

great point here about who is minority vs majority


Do you honestly expect me to decipher this mess?


eh, it’s probably best to click on the links to see it more clearly. i just wanted to post Cleven’s side on here for reference of the former pvp designer


the one thing which popped out to me was this:

my intention was to do the largest good for the largest number of players.

well, any distribution of skill will follow the standard normal distribution, right, where few people are very good, few people are very bad, and the rest are just average in the middle (simplifying, but that’s the general idea).

So this, to me, translates as “I did the most to help the average people in the middle have a good experience”

So not quite “game was aimed at noobs,” but definitely “game [i.e. movement, tuning, etc] was NOT aimed at the skilled players in the right end of the bell curve”.

Their mandate was to increase player count. You don’t do that by creating a difficult game where you keep getting killed while you are learning, not with the players how they are now… NO one wants a CHALLENGE, they want everything made easy, for fun… (for most part).


Interesting note: all 3 people you have quoted are former TC employees.


that stood out to me as well. shouldn’t that be the goal? interesting seeing this conversation and everything that has been talked about in the big tuning thread.


This dude like butter is a clown imagine saying people who bounce aren’t true fans of the game not everybody wants to run in a straight line we’re entitled to play however we want he’s clearly stuck in the pass and I for one don’t believe gears 1 style gameplay would be nearly as popular today as it was in 2006 nor do I believe UE is better than gears 3 he just has some deep rooted hatred against wallbouncing


“Competitive Players listened to extensively”

— The problem for Gears of War.



I am all for devs making changes to their games because things can be bad or stale or just right out broken and a change is needed whether some players like it or not. The only thing I ask of devs is to provide the evidence to support said change.

The most truest thing said in this conversation is that competitive players dont know what they want.


They definitely did fall off when they didn’t carry over the settings from the final Gears 4 tuning


Makes sense. You gotta go after the players residing on the mean of the bell curve, because thats where majority of the players reside(within one standard deviation on either side of the mean).

Curious how this discussion is popping up around here and has been addressed by someone I also watch on YouTube regarding a different game about the players who bother to try understanding game mechanics and learning them to be better at it but are few in number opposed to the majority who don’t really care and mainly just want to play the game for what it is worth(and I can’t blame them for that because it can make the experience much simpler/enjoyable not really caring if there’s any deeper aspects to something… but this also can be rather infuriating to those few that bother with those).

Or maybe curious is the wrong word to use because it’s to be expected.


yeah, I think the issue here is that there will always be a separation of those who want to get better, understanding the game mechanics, and those who just want to pop into a game and play for fun, using “random button pressing” approach to game play…

There’s nothing wrong with that, UNTIL the random button pressers insist that they NOT be at a disadvantage against those who learn the mechanics… As soon as that happens, the developer wants to carer to those, the mechanics have to be greatly simplified, and the advantage of knowing how to use those mechanics rendered impotent, as to ensure that the random button pressers have a “good experience.”… The game skill set becomes very shallow… it will never be zero…

that’s my impression of G5 PvP design.

A good matchmaking system would solve that… don’t put good players against bad players…

but it’s easier to just changing weapon damage numbers, movement speed, etc, than working on a good, effective ranking and matchmaking system…

I liked GoW4 PvP… It was HARD to get good at it, but it was fun learning (and getting killed over and over, until I got it)… I guess TC wanted to spare people that part of the journey… just download the game, and you can play immediately…

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That is the unfortunate reality of the situation.

I see where he is getting at and tbh, I think it would’ve worked.

Yes that was always clear and when you want a franchise to keep growing, this is the right direction. The issue is they leaned a little too much towards new players at launch but with each update they got closer and closer to a good middle ground.

And ultimately I believe that’s where they’ve landed now. A tuning that can still cater to pro/advanced players while still inviting to newcomers.


Mod hat: Edited as this is more a ‘general discussion’ area, not Gears 5 only.


This discussion is specifically about G5 PvP, lol…

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Bringing in a Twitter link around individuals that are not currently involved with Gears 5 discussing a lot of things that are not just about Gears 5 makes it a ‘General’ discussion. :slight_smile:


What a mess. It’s just dumb posting and people not listening to each other. Ryan says something and people jump on him and say :no this is why:.

Twitter can be a terrible format.

Ryan’s overall point that trying to cater to everyone is hard to do. Million different threads all being pulled in different directions. Yet within those threads you do get common feeds.

Should pro players be listened to? Sure. Avexies saying you should have less aim assist in wall bouncing makes sense.
That slower game play makes you think more tactical is wrong. It doesnt. He is already in that mindset because he is a pro…its his job. I played last night and my mind wasn’t on tactics. It was on winning and having fun with my friend who I haven’t played with for 4 weeks.

But on the flip side hyperbouncers who say they should have the freedom to wall bounce till you puke is also wrong.

Playing the weekend I learned the tuning is bad in a lot of areas. The lancer is worthless unless you have team support. There is no reason. No reason why someone should be able to run up to a boom on gridlock, stand there, press x as I lancer and walk away with it. Not when I’m shooting from the cars. That drop off isn’t enough. If inwas at the stairs by boltok I would gladly accept this result.

Who ever created the beta tuning should never have listened to whomever had their ears.