Man, I sincerely applaud this man. No, some of the specifics implemented into the game were not ideal but his general approach was good.
This is what started the conversation:
Some of his responses:
Someone give this man a beat right now, he rapping. Anyone here beatbox?
great point here about who is minority vs majority
Do you honestly expect me to decipher this mess?
eh, itâs probably best to click on the links to see it more clearly. i just wanted to post Clevenâs side on here for reference of the former pvp designer
the one thing which popped out to me was this:
my intention was to do the largest good for the largest number of players.
well, any distribution of skill will follow the standard normal distribution, right, where few people are very good, few people are very bad, and the rest are just average in the middle (simplifying, but thatâs the general idea).
So this, to me, translates as âI did the most to help the average people in the middle have a good experienceâ
So not quite âgame was aimed at noobs,â but definitely âgame [i.e. movement, tuning, etc] was NOT aimed at the skilled players in the right end of the bell curveâ.
Their mandate was to increase player count. You donât do that by creating a difficult game where you keep getting killed while you are learning, not with the players how they are now⌠NO one wants a CHALLENGE, they want everything made easy, for fun⌠(for most part).
Interesting note: all 3 people you have quoted are former TC employees.
that stood out to me as well. shouldnât that be the goal? interesting seeing this conversation and everything that has been talked about in the big tuning thread.
This dude like butter is a clown imagine saying people who bounce arenât true fans of the game not everybody wants to run in a straight line weâre entitled to play however we want heâs clearly stuck in the pass and I for one donât believe gears 1 style gameplay would be nearly as popular today as it was in 2006 nor do I believe UE is better than gears 3 he just has some deep rooted hatred against wallbouncing
âCompetitive Players listened to extensivelyâ
â The problem for Gears of War.
I am all for devs making changes to their games because things can be bad or stale or just right out broken and a change is needed whether some players like it or not. The only thing I ask of devs is to provide the evidence to support said change.
The most truest thing said in this conversation is that competitive players dont know what they want.
They definitely did fall off when they didnât carry over the settings from the final Gears 4 tuning
Makes sense. You gotta go after the players residing on the mean of the bell curve, because thats where majority of the players reside(within one standard deviation on either side of the mean).
Curious how this discussion is popping up around here and has been addressed by someone I also watch on YouTube regarding a different game about the players who bother to try understanding game mechanics and learning them to be better at it but are few in number opposed to the majority who donât really care and mainly just want to play the game for what it is worth(and I canât blame them for that because it can make the experience much simpler/enjoyable not really caring if thereâs any deeper aspects to something⌠but this also can be rather infuriating to those few that bother with those).
Or maybe curious is the wrong word to use because itâs to be expected.
yeah, I think the issue here is that there will always be a separation of those who want to get better, understanding the game mechanics, and those who just want to pop into a game and play for fun, using ârandom button pressingâ approach to game playâŚ
Thereâs nothing wrong with that, UNTIL the random button pressers insist that they NOT be at a disadvantage against those who learn the mechanics⌠As soon as that happens, the developer wants to carer to those, the mechanics have to be greatly simplified, and the advantage of knowing how to use those mechanics rendered impotent, as to ensure that the random button pressers have a âgood experience.â⌠The game skill set becomes very shallow⌠it will never be zeroâŚ
thatâs my impression of G5 PvP design.
A good matchmaking system would solve that⌠donât put good players against bad playersâŚ
but itâs easier to just changing weapon damage numbers, movement speed, etc, than working on a good, effective ranking and matchmaking systemâŚ
I liked GoW4 PvP⌠It was HARD to get good at it, but it was fun learning (and getting killed over and over, until I got it)⌠I guess TC wanted to spare people that part of the journey⌠just download the game, and you can play immediatelyâŚ
That is the unfortunate reality of the situation.
I see where he is getting at and tbh, I think it wouldâve worked.
Yes that was always clear and when you want a franchise to keep growing, this is the right direction. The issue is they leaned a little too much towards new players at launch but with each update they got closer and closer to a good middle ground.
And ultimately I believe thatâs where theyâve landed now. A tuning that can still cater to pro/advanced players while still inviting to newcomers.
Mod hat: Edited as this is more a âgeneral discussionâ area, not Gears 5 only.
This discussion is specifically about G5 PvP, lolâŚ
Bringing in a Twitter link around individuals that are not currently involved with Gears 5 discussing a lot of things that are not just about Gears 5 makes it a âGeneralâ discussion. 
What a mess. Itâs just dumb posting and people not listening to each other. Ryan says something and people jump on him and say :no this is why:.
Twitter can be a terrible format.
Ryanâs overall point that trying to cater to everyone is hard to do. Million different threads all being pulled in different directions. Yet within those threads you do get common feeds.
Should pro players be listened to? Sure. Avexies saying you should have less aim assist in wall bouncing makes sense.
That slower game play makes you think more tactical is wrong. It doesnt. He is already in that mindset because he is a proâŚits his job. I played last night and my mind wasnât on tactics. It was on winning and having fun with my friend who I havenât played with for 4 weeks.
But on the flip side hyperbouncers who say they should have the freedom to wall bounce till you puke is also wrong.
Playing the weekend I learned the tuning is bad in a lot of areas. The lancer is worthless unless you have team support. There is no reason. No reason why someone should be able to run up to a boom on gridlock, stand there, press x as I lancer and walk away with it. Not when Iâm shooting from the cars. That drop off isnât enough. If inwas at the stairs by boltok I would gladly accept this result.
Who ever created the beta tuning should never have listened to whomever had their ears.