The OP @‘d me for my opinion on the subject. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have even responded to this thread.
And I brought up Master difficulty because I don’t think anyone is complaining about the poisons on anything other than Master or Incon, and MAYBE Insane, so the difficulty matters when discussing the subject.
We literally just went through this with the Elite drone thread 
TC has been experimenting this operation with many more mutators on the daily challenges and I think it’s a good start. I’m not sure if they have to permanently work for every single map, we could have some universal mutators for all maps that rotate on a weekly basis.
There’s been plenty of good suggestions on the forums about additional mutators. Personally I like the idea of more enemies spawn at a time, more aggressive, more scion spawns and things like that instead of making regular enemies more bullet spongy.
You realize that’s the engine being able to only handle so much AI, right? They even mentioned that during one of the dev-streams.
It depends on classes. Some find double health more difficult and some find more damage difficult. I can’t comment much on double accuracy. So since it should be easier earlier on and harder later on, it’s still complicated. I can go through every single class, which poisons they find most difficult.
Blademaster doesn’t seem to struggle much against more health enemies when you’re healing off their bleed, using Breaker or electroblade. If you’re trying to kill them fast for self healing, then more health would be the difficult one. Taking more damage is obviously a difficult one, like when you’re trying to close the gap and may or may not have damage resistances stacked.
Demolitions destroys more health enemies easily. More damage and accuracy at range would be difficult. If you’re trying to do bullet based or Frag build, double health would be the more difficult one.
Infiltrator doesn’t find double health enemies difficult at all. You can easily execute them in cloak and their HP barely mattered. And with their massive bleed, other stuff die easily, even more health. Double damage against their stim or without stim, would be the difficult poison.
Marksman probably doesn’t struggle much against double damage enemies, because they could be far away, in hiding or gets killed before shot at. More accuracy could make things tricky, so more chance of hitting Marksman at far range and lastly, the more health poison starts to make things not one-shot anymore, I would think more health is the difficult poison for Marksman, the moment when you can’t one shot Scions or DR-1’s.
Nomad, their execution build makes double health look easy. Double damage would be the harder poison for execution. And ranged Markza build, if you want to headshot them easily, double health is the difficult poison. If you’re trying to maintain your stim at range to continue bleeding, more accuracy would be harder on you, because more likely to shoot your stim off. And it would barely matter if enemies had double damage from range.
Anchor cheeses double damage and accuracy easily with their barrier ability. The real struggle would be more health enemies, especially when you’re trying to maintain and keep up Bullet Chain and Barrier Feedback.
If you’re playing tackle Brawler and want stim ASAP, more health would be the enemy. But most of the time, I find double damage to be the trickier poison because you don’t want to get downed while running around, even with Soothing Warmth + Perk Up + Inner Fire + Damage Dash resistances. With pyro build (Scorcher or burning bullets), more health would be problematic, otherwise you may not be doing enough damage. But it also means less resistance for yourself, so maybe double damage is trickier? Even though it’s easy to stay hidden.
Gunner doesn’t seem to find double health enemies difficult at all, because it just means you’ll more Tri-Shot / Mulcher bullets their way, and continue regenerating off them from passive. If you’re far away and still think they tank too much heavy ammo, then double health is trickier. Otherwise, if you’re trying to tank them with Bait Armour + whatever other resistances but they do too much damage, double damage and maybe accuracy would be the harder poisons. Although double damage doesn’t matter when you’re using Reflective Shell ultimate? And you will want more accuracy enemies, so they have more chance of hitting your Reflective Shell, to deflect back. You could say more accuracy is easier, only in ultimate.
Pilot struggles against double health enemies when using Enforcer card. They may struggle to one shot enemies with Dropshot too, with double health around. The Tri-Shot on Silverback would take longer to kill enemies too, but still relatively fast anyway. Double damage would destroy Silverback much sooner, if not using health regeneration cards. So which is the more difficult poison? I nearly always have healing on Silverback, even with Healing Explosives, so personally, double health would be the trickier poison.
Veteran cheeses double damage and accuracy enemies with their auto aim ultimate. The stim regenerating and cover damage reduction lets them survive the damage. I personally think double health is the complicated poison, because it won’t let you headshot enemies as fast as before, to wipe the wave quick. So while you’re too busy trying to reduce enemies’ HP, some may slip through because not killing fast enough. Although when you’re chainsawing to recharge ultimate, double damage would be the harder poison because there’s more chance you’ll get downed.
Combat Medic doesn’t seem to kill as much, or do as much damage compared to other classes. When it tries to, double health would be making things difficult. If you’re trying to blow up some enemies with Frags to recharge Team Revive ultimate, you would not want double health in action, because it’ll let them survive more easily. Or… more health poison could be the easier one, because you get to shoot enemies head more often for more stim and longer, although the goal is to finish quick as possible.
Jack using Hijack build and zapping, finds double health more difficult because can’t do enough damage or fast, to get ultimate back or extend duration for longer easier. Although the silver lining is that zapping More health enemies, allows you to keep recharging ultimate off them. Either way, in Jack form, nobody likes getting shot down, so double damage poison is obviously a difficult one. And you wouldn’t want to die too fast either in Hijack form. Overall, it’s a mixed bag and both difficult.
Mechanic’s shouldn’t be worrying about double health or double damage, if mainly focused on building for entire team. More health means they trample or survive walking over Barriers, and your Sentries may not do much jack against them. But at the same time, double damage means they do even more damage to your Barriers, and potential to destroy Sentries instantly from gunfire or explosives. I can’t say which might be more difficult as it’s both. As a character, Mechanic doesn’t have enough resistances so even with or without stim, double damage poison would cause one shots. If you’re trying to use Enforcer DB damage build, you wouldn’t want enemies to have double health since it’ll render you more useless,
Robotics Expert is a mixed bag. The more you shoot enemies with Inspired Sniping, the more ultimate recharge you get, so double health would be beneficial. But if you’re trying to make use of Precision Repair and / or Bloody Support bleeding, double health makes things difficult. I don’t think double damage makes much difference, except more damage to your fortifications and Barriers. There may a point where enemies do too much damage, that you can’t repair them fast enough with Precision Repair, but you can just use your Repair Tool anyway. And since Robotics take ages to refill MG Sentry ammo, you do not want enemies to have more health poison.
Tactician can get downed easily from double damage, unless they are in Resupply Healing Module. If you’re trying to get easy ultimate recharge from Recharge Bounty or marking, double health would make things difficult if can’t kill fast enough or instantly, especially on Hammerburst build. But with GL + Boomshot combo, more health still seems easy. Even if they are bleeding because of higher HP, you still get more faster ultimate recharging… Also, Tactician doesn’t have Custom GL or Boomshot like Demolitions does. So even if perfect active reload every round, it may or may not be enough, depending if you’re firing at Scion or DR-1. But when you’re in Resupply mode with fast charging explosives, their double health barely seems to matter since you can rain everything with explosives. So if you roll without Healing Module and get downed during ultimate, you’re gonna hate double damage poison.
Architect can’t do much, especially when double health kicks in. Even with double damage around, they still have regenerating halo stim every few seconds. With ultimate decoy up and distracting, shooting higher HP enemies also means longer ultimate duration, and double damage doesn’t matter here because distracted.
Protector, while they also have halo stim, I wouldn’t be sure which one is the more difficult poison. With Breaker, I am sure they could take out double health enemies with ease, especially combined with Bubble Shield. The Breaker slam would bypass protection shield. So without stim while it’s recharging, I imagine double damage to be trickier as more chance of getting shot down.
Slugger finds it difficult to blow up enemies with Frag damage and radius, when double health poison takes effect. That is the main offensive tool IMO and for it to be rendered useless, makes it number one difficult poison for Sluggers. The double damage and accuracy doesn’t matter much.
I can’t comment on which poison the Striker class finds most difficult. The Incendiary bleed toss hasn’t been patched, so even if used that, enemies’ double health doesn’t seem to be an issue, neither bosses’. When using a Breaker or melee’ing, I would say double damage is probably the more difficult poison. You don’t want to get downed either, when in middle of going to toss grenade or when holding Breaker, because its duration will deplete super fast if take heavy damage.
So overall, most of the classes find double health to be the more difficult poison… Either way, I don’t have much issue with which order the poisons should go. If you want them to be changed from easiest to hardest, then it should probably go accuracy > damage > health.
Yeah, but thats an example of something which, while factually accurate, is largely irrelevant for the purposes of this conversation… We never had perks before… So that changes things… As i pointed out…
Torquebow headshots were instant kills , thats part of the DNA of horde right? No more…
Dropshot headshots were instant kills until now… Part of the DNA of previous horde… No more…
Things change, you need to examine the overall picture, not pick and choose which specific elements cannot change, while others change drastically…
I dont mind the poisons… I just feel that given perks, and given the economy of energy , giving us a poison on wave 11 which virtually forces people to be selfish with energy in the early waves when the base is just being built might not be the best ORDER in which to do things…
Again, nothing to do with this idea or why i am suggesting it… An attempt to dismiss it with a thinly vailed jab/insult 
?
But hey, i like gettung different view points…
Lol my bad for not having the time to watch every single developer stream 
Point is that there are tons of different options instead of extra health.
Nah, not a jab at you personally. I was using the royal “you”.
Also, Dropshot headshots were in one game. Poisons have been in four.
I think the only needs needed are the claws firing speeds to be more realistic with how long and accurate they fire full damage shots, or the mulch er scions accuracy while moving and firing from across a whole map lol. Otherwise master is too easy and the characters need a huge rebalancing too. Otherwise coalition did a great job with gears 5
Agreed. Keep the double health poison in the last. It saves more time, and the game doesn’t become repetitive.
This should be insta kills…why TC decided to add a card and damage percentage to this, I can’t figure it out.
The more aggressive modifier on the dailies is exactly that. Im liking the new modifiers on the dailies. Hoping they can just open them up so we can put them on in custom lobies soon. Sometimes i like a challenge other times just want to breeze through and have fun. Like the 3x energy drop. Built walls of sentries just cause we had ridiculous amounts of energy