Im tired of hearing this to be honest. Yes its definitely easier to remake Gears 4 maps, but its also lazy on TC’s part. TC keeps making promises they cant deliver. They couldnt make 2 maps a month with 4 what made them think they could do 2 maps every 3 months? They’re the ones that said it takes 6 months to make 1.
I disagree with you on this one.
When I look at TC made maps I don’t think they’re “lazy”, I think they’re inept. Like when people bring up Pahanu or Bunker I don’t see those maps as lazy but just poor map design, I would argue that the quantity of maps in GOW5 isn’t even the problem the problem is that the game only has a few really good maps (Allfathers, District, Asylum, Canals, Foundation, Exhibit) and all the other ones are kind of awful by comparison (Pahanu, Bunker, Icebound, Vasgar, etc.) so it only feels like the game has a few maps because few else is seldom voted for.
TC has about a hit or miss track record when it comes to maps, they can occasionally make great maps (Allfathers imo is their best map) but more often than not you’re just stuck with these trash tier maps that were seemingly made by people that don’t really understand the games.
I just think TC needs to have higher standards in terms of who they hire to make maps, like the interviewer needs to ask them questions that will (in some way) tell them whether or not this person knows what good Gears maps play like, like I’m pretty damn sure the person who made Pahanu was fired, which begs the question why were they hired in the first place? They shoulda known something was wrong from the getgo.
1 Like
I think TC are very lazy when it comes to the remakes, not with regards to the new maps they gave us.
Forge, Reclaimed, Foundation, Dam and Harbor were never supposed to be in Gears 5 versus, only for private use.
But due to a huge oversight and really bordering on incompetence TC decided to only release the game with 7 new maps, only giving us more maps every Operation, so every 3 months. Now this would be fine if every Operation we received 4 to 5 brand new maps, however after 3 Operations we only have 2 brand new maps and Pahanu is awful.
I don’t have a problem with older maps as such, but i’ve played on most of them for decades and would really like some new maps for a new game instead of lazy remakes. I call them lazy because all of the maps TC have brought over from Gears of War 4 are visually the same. I love Canals but to have the exact version from Gears of War 4 with seemingly no real effort to visually change the map in anyway i think is really disappointing.
I don’t like the fact TC keep giving us remakes, it worked for Gears of War 4 in some ways because i think it had been so long since a lot of people had played on them and there were a lot of new fans experience Gears for the first time so it would’ve been their first time playing them anyway. But for Gears 5 i think this is a huge flaw, i really don’t want Gridlock back because it’s just another map that i’ve played a million times and i doubt TC will change it visually.
But i have a strange feeling we’re going to get Gridlock in Operation 4 which i think is disappointing.
1 Like
Im not talking about the quality of maps when I say lazy Im talking about porting Gears 4 maps
@o_F_3_R_R_3_T_o Yeah but if you even look as far as remakes go TC don’t seem to really know which maps are good/bad, like when they remade Gears 3 maps they brought back Drydock/Rustlung, now Rustlung plays decent but you can’t tell me there weren’t better maps available? Let me name a few: Trenches, Depths, Academy, Anvil, hell even Jacinto/Bullet Marsh (which are older remakes) so I don’t believe TC doesn’t put any effort into maps, I just think they have some incompetent devs on the team when it comes to maps.
@ll_R_E_D_l yeah but when you look at the Gears 4 maps they brought back they weren’t even the best ones either, like Foundation, Reclaimed (even though that Trishot OP af), and maybe Forge were all good maps but the others (Harbor, Lift) are kinda terrible in my eyes, Relic and Diner probably should’ve been ported before those maps were.
Again, I just think they have some really bad map designers (or whoever is the one that makes executive level decisions as to which maps are remade) at The Coalition.
Like Pahanu had to of taken an enormous chunk of time to develop, I would venture a guess that it likely required more time to develop than any other Gears 5 map (due to size and aesthetics), Dana said something like it takes around 6 months to develop a Gears 5 map, so that map probably took like 7-8 months, so they spent loads of developer time to make one of the worst maps in GOW history (if you wanna argue this point lets argue 
)
In my eyes 1 bad map=3 decent or good ones, so I think they probably would’ve been better off to port some of the lesser known Gears 4 maps instead of making Pahanu, but I digress.
Tl:dr TC trys, but they ultimately fail due to awful developers. They could almost double their effort (hiring more folks to design maps, that sort of thing) and it wouldn’t make much difference to me personally because they would still be making trash tier maps.
1 Like
Most of what you are saying is opinion I enjoyed a lot of the Gears 4 maps. What I didnt enjoy where the remakes. They were either remakes we got too many time or remakes of maps that were already in the game. But the reason for the Gears 4 maps are in Gears 5 in the first place is because of Esports
As for this I would think it was Ryan who had final say about all multiplayer stuff.
My initial reply was just explaining why i thought the remakes were lazy, not really anything to do with what maps they poorly decide to remake so i’m not really arguing with you or anything.
As for your reply though i can’t say i disagree at all, there are a lot better maps they could’ve remade than Rustlung and especially Drydock.
I don’t think TC have their head in the right place at all when they decide to make a new map, they seem obsessed with elevation and giving the player as many angles to cross as possible which are both a bit problematic if you don’t do them right (Sandbar and Overpass for example from Gears of War 3). The maps we have for 2v2 Gnashers are a good way to give a simple example, there’s not a single flat map with cover. They all have high and low spots which when you’re trying to accurately bounce around become annoying, i’ve died so many times because i accidentally fell down onto the tracks on Boxes and got stuck in that animation. Mid is one of the favourites for 2v2 Gnashers and i think that’s because when you get to the middle it’s all on flat even ground with well placed cover. If TC made a 2v2 Gnashers map that was all flat and symmetrical with well placed cover to bounce around i think it would go straight to being the most popular map for that mode.
A while ago i made a thread on how to improve maps like Bunker and Icebound, one of the things i suggested was giving the player more cover and reducing crossing angles. About a month later they even used an idea i had in that thread and blocked the windows in the centre building on Icebound, stopping people being able to cross people running out of spawn, making the map less campy and more playable overall.
(I don’t know if they changed it because they saw my thread or if it was just a coincidence, probably a coincidence)
I just don’t think TC understand what makes a fun and enjoyable map to be honest.
I see Icebound sorta how I saw Trenches in Gears of War 3, its meant to be a crossheavy map, snowstorm (or sandstorm in Trenches) is there to give a brief opportunity to be aggressive, now I do think Icebound has got much better over time (with the updates) but at its core its probably the 3rd least popular Gears 5 map, mainly because its so crossheavy.
I agree with everything you said, I also want to do a shameless plug about my Pahanu thread
TC foreal can make good maps though, as evidenced by Allfathers, I just think that some of the devs are great and some are lackluster and that’s why you see such disparity in terms of quality (no I don’t just mean in terms of aesthetics, I mean in terms of basic design philosophy)
2 Likes
There is one huge reason why i have not returned to Gears of War 4 Horde, and that is because of my main character is an Engineer.
I spent months getting my Baird to exactly how i wanted it, just so i can join a game and every Tom, Deek and Harry can play the Engineer, when they are not, or have not joined as the Engineer. I hate Gears of War 4 Horde for that reason. And, i never really liked playing the other characters.
Gears 5 Horde did away with all that frustration by allowing the Engineer to be The builder in Horde, granted there are a few that can build level 1 items, but the Engineer is top dog for building.
So, no, i could not go back to Gears of War 4 Horde, so i will wait and see what happens in OP4.
Just as a side note, remade… Not exactly remade are they, just ported over. It is easy to the point of lazy. I mean, seriously, if you had a catalogue of maps to choose from, would you make some, or port them. Whilst it is a nice idea for fresh ideas, do you honestly think that will happen. The Coalition are still chucking out skins in the Store, paying more attention to grabbing some money rather than fixing the game. OP4 has been delayed, i guess because the Store had ton come first.
The question as to whether or not something will or won’t happen isn’t what I’m too interested in, I’m just a humble Bluejay afterall 
TC has their (often proven to be wrong) ways of doing things and I have mine, what I mean is that just because they thought Drydock was a great GOW3 map doesn’t mean I can’t voice my disapproval of it.
We all know damn well they’re gonna remake Gridlock, Raven Down, Fuel Depot, BloodDrive, and probably Checkout (they may decide to port over more of the Gears 3 maps from 4, but I’m not certain how many) but my point, which I’ve been very outspoken about, is that they have plenty of other maps to remake besides those and they also don’t have to just remake it exactly as it once was. Its just crazy to think that out of all the maps created between GOW1-3 apparently TC only sees a handful of them worthy to be remade.
I also find it funny how people pretend TC are greedy scumbags while Gears 3 had microtransactions for days. Yes TC are in it for the money, but what exactly did you expect their goal to be? Love? Pfft. Gears 5 isn’t as bad as 4 imo because they aren’t trying to charge for maps as well but they still are greedy.
1 Like
I prefer the old style Season Pass and DLC’s, you got a choice then how much you want, or wanted to buy/spend. Games nowadays are littered with Micro Transactions, mostly stuff that should be in the game anyway, but stuff The Coalition seem to think people need, and yeah, they do buy it. In some respects, the game does end up being Pay to Win. Gears of War 4 Horde had the Skill Card Pack system, you either farmed your Credits and bought Elite Packs as i did, or if you were in a rush or just plain lazy and have too much money, you bought the packs and got everything super quick sharpish.
The thing about today’s games, and the games from the past, is that developers got wise to people buying what they needed, ans not what the developers needed you to, thus taking away that option.
There is still a debate going on about free content and Micro Transactions Vs Season Pass and DLC’s, and it has been proven Micro transaction make more money, and thus greed comes in to effect, such as The Coalition and all these Skins they keep chucking out.
I like Drydock, by the way. Raven Down in my opinion is a horrible map to build on in Horde as the Engineer, but i can do it, i just do not like it.
I like Fuel Depot, and love Blood Drive, so easy to build on.
As an after thought, yeah every developer wants money, but there is wanting money, and there is wanting MONEY. There is a line between making money for profit and making money for greed. Most companies that make more money that they need tend to waste it, by giving the higher uppers a raise, or a bonus. It needs to go back in to game development, or research. or hiring extra staff. Greed is greed. And while i have no idea how The Coalition distributes their wealth, i do hope it is done for the sack of the company, and not for the pocket of some already Rich person.
Every map that was in Gears of War 4 should be in Gears 5. Matchmaking can very easily weigh newer maps to show up more often as opposed to the old ones, but it would nice to have them as an option.
Bruh Horde is easy af 
its a bit like saying the campaign is pay to win, a little out there.
The season pass kinda sucked because it included the Horde Command Pack (which was like $10 for garbage) so you were kinda screwed with getting it anyways. The main issue with map packs (which is what Gears 1-3 did) is that you just end up segmenting the population, if it were in GOW5 for example it would be pretty damn difficult to find matches in most game modes, I think the microtransaction system (which again started in GOW3) is better because it allows them to focus on sustaining the game and although we (as customers) can buy stuff its not necessary in any way. People expect them to be supporting Gears 5 for a lot longer, which is insane, Gears devs in games past were known to leave about 6 or so months after release and then they’d just focus on their next project, now they’re kinda stuck here with us for a while.
You base your opinion on maps off of Horde, which is fine and all, but Horde is so easy in GOW5 that honestly what map they make isn’t too important, like by using your logic Overpass is a must in terms of remakes, but obviously that map was trash for MP so wouldn’t make much sense to bring it back. If there was anything that the Coalition could do in terms of horde maps I think a simple solution would be to allow people to make custom maps via Escape maps, now of course they wouldn’t give XP and stuff at first (because then it would be abused) but once they sorta publish good community maps then there would be much more variety in terms of map selection.
@XeroShinobi The devs still have to do some tweaks here and there when they port them over to GOW5, if you pay close attention to the maps you’ll notice tons of minute changes that were made from GOW4 to GOW5, most of it seems to be optimization based (which is why they look worse in GOW5 than they did in GOW4) but I’d guess it takes about a months or so to port Gears 4 maps into Gears 5.
I also don’t really agree with you that all the maps should be brought back, there are still a few gems that I wouldn’t mind seeing make a return (Diner, Relic, most of the GOW3 maps) but they have an insanely large pool of potentially banging maps to choose from in terms of remakes. I would kill to see Tyro Station make a return 
1 Like
Not arguing with there, Horde is easy. Until it is not. It depends what difficulty setting you use, and we all know about the ridiculous A.I. at waves 42 to 47, instants downs, now that is hard.
I did say i prefer it that way, i was not saying it was good or bad, but personally i would say it is bad, that however is my choice. I grew up on gaming and this type of development in these same games. And, i agree with you regarding games being staggered, some people bought the map packs and others did not, so finding the games you want can be hard. But, developers created playlists for this sort of thing. Any game i loved, i bought the map packs for, whether it was the season pass of bought them individually. The option was there. However, on your side of the development there is the advantage of buying or not buying but still get a full game. It is the temptation you got to fight with if you choose not to buy, and we all have been there, “Oh i love that, i got to get it”, you then decide, are you going to feed that machine, or stick to your ideals.
As for all maps being implemented in the game, what you like or love is your opinion, what someone else likes or loves is again an opinion. Would it not be easier just to chuck them all out there and let people decide.
And to finish off with, the line you took from my Post was misleading. The important parts were missing, and by just adding that one line, you make me out to be some sort of… I am not sure what ther term is, but there was a huge discussion about this sort of thing on the Halo forums some time ago about Pay to Play being Pay to Win. it ended badly, and thank you very much, i really do not want to be part of that. There was “In some respects” added tot he beginning of that sentence you used.
Christ I hope not. I detest Gridlock. Gridlock and Blood Drive are 2 maps that need to just not come back for at least 2 games.
1 Like
Or not come back at all.
Funny you bring up Halo as an example (which isn’t surprising, I mean its in your name) people made the same argument for Halo 5, it kinda fell apart because you could earn REQ packs so easily in that game, but I think that argument was more fair for Halo 5 than Gears 5 all things considered. Regardless of how you feel about MTX I suspect they’ll never take it out of Gears (or Halo) as its had a proven track record for making 
map packs are an outdated concept, the truth is that people hate buying maps that they can’t play on with their friends, like imagine you are wanting to play a Master Horde run but because you don’t have map x you get kicked, it just creates a lot of unnecessary friction within the community.
The one main benefit of map packs is that it would essentially mean you could just not buy Pahanu (in this case) so you would probably end up with a better map pool for that reason (I reallllly hate Pahanu, in case you haven’t noticed ) yet because they would probably separate players who purchased all maps to those who purchased none you’d kinda be screwed anyways. I also imagine that the map release cycle would be much much slower, because I doubt players would be excited to purchase 2 maps together (like what we’ve gotten in Operations 2 & 3) so they’d have to release a map pack like every 6 months.
I just think this is a completely subjective sort of area, just using Halo as an example, I remember in Halo I purchased 1 map pack and I immediately regretted it, because you would hardly ever get to play them, and if the map pack wasn’t full of amazing maps (which they’re often be hit or miss) you were kinda screwing yourself in my eyes. I also just see the current MTX based system being better for developers because you know if you do something really impressive post launch that ALL (I suppose you could say most because not everybody necessarily plays MP or Horde and so on) of the playerbase will be able to enjoy it, one of the reasons why people don’t remember all the Gears 2/Gears 3 DLC is because plenty didn’t ever play on them my guy, so you had developers that spent tons of time and effort into making (most) of the maps pretty much get no recognition or appreciation, only like 20% (giving a general estimate, not sure of exact %) are actually going to play that map that you made, so it kind of reduces any incentive developers have to make great maps.
I’ve rambled enough about all this, I know you (as well as many others) are stuck in their ways but I thought I’d give my perspective on the matter.
@ll_R_E_D_l The worst part about them bringing back Gridlock or Blooddrive isn’t just that they’re boring, its that they’ll be voted for every match. Rubbing salt into our wounds 
I honestly hope that they wait a bit (like 2 Operations from now) to bring back any of the (what I like to call) infamous 5 maps (Gridlock, Blooddrive, War Machine, Fuel Depot, Raven Down) not just because I’m tired of them, but that way the playerbase can kinda dip their toes into new and exciting maps, putting one of those maps into Gears 5 just takes any sort of interest people might have for other maps to be either remade or created.
TC could create the best map in Gears history (Allfathers gotta be in top 10 though, not gonna lie) but you best believe everybody gonna vote Gridlock or BloodDrive over that, and that’s a darn shame I tell you what.
1 Like
Na man the worst part about bringing any of those maps back is that we wont get a remake that actually deserves a remake or one that we’ve been asking for. At this point even though I know the map will play like sh%t I’d rather have River
River could be kinda neat depending on how they remake it, like if the river was frozen it would definitely look a bit different, and I do think that with some significant changes in terms of layout (they probably have to add another entry point in both of the towers somehow, though I can’t think of exactly how they’d do it) that the map could play pretty well, but Pahanu kinda lowered my expectations so I doubt TC is capable of improving any previous Gears of War map (they’d probably put a Trishot in the middle for example, stupid decisions like that)
The good thing here is that its not so much a matter of them remaking a map but moreso them just porting it from Gears 4, so I highly doubt that them porting the Gears 4 map versions to Gears 5 would hurt them too much in terms of time to make other remakes, I expect to see a lot more Gears 4 ports (because they’re easy and requested) so we’ll see. I doubt we’ll see any more of the Gears 4 (as in maps that were made not remade in Gears 4) maps for quite some time as they’ve already put in a handful of Gears 4 maps, but I do think any of those Gears 1-3 remakes in GOW4 are up for grabs in GOW5.
I’m not saying what I want TC to do, just what I expect them to do.