A bit of math shows Perks can't be used without super active forge and/or taps


it costs 24,250 to max out one perk : (from 44,000 to 19,750 )

So 4 perks per player, 5 players on a team, that’s 485,000 energy just to max out perks.

Now, let’s assume everyone wanted a level 4 locker. 7500 * 4 = 30,000, but say 40% Del discount, that’s 18,000 per player.

Total so far 557,000

Looking at past Master screen shots, it looks like we, as a team, usually pick up about 80K in energy…

Watching @CommanderCH2863 's solo Master run on BloodDrive , he probably picked up most of the energy available, and got about 300,000… So let’s say there is about 300,000 energy available for pick up in the whole game…

So even without building ANY base fortifications, ONLY looking at perks and a locker each, the game gives you about HALF of the energy needed for that…

So what do we do? You need a forge and/or taps…

A level 4 forge will set you back 150004.6 = 36,000 with Del’s discount… But then max smelting (boom, drop, salvo) give everyone 600 energy, so that’s 3000 per gun. regular rifles give you 300 each, so 1500 per gun… A good jack can easily smelt 10-15 guns per wave, so that could be 20,000 energy per wave… So a good jack is extremely valuable, to all you perk whores :slight_smile:

Or, we look at taps… A level 4 tap gives every 1200 energy, right, so that’s 6,000 per wave… Not nearly as much as jack, but you don’t need a jack and you don’t need to pay for a forge… and that’s per tap, so it could be 12,000 or 18,000 per wave, later on in the game, BUT it’s highly unlikely you can keep many taps alive on higher diff levels, outside of Forge…

So yeah,. energy collection and management is EXTREMLY important. There simply isn’t enough energy to perk people up and build a base without supplementary energy sources… So people really perking up and not depositing early in the game should definitely get the boot, IMO…

I think the perks are too expensive. It’s insane how much energy it costs to perk up the whole team…

I GET why they added perks, it’s a way of making Horde characters stronger without breaking Escape, but it shouldn’t be SUCH a chore to use them, after all, those perks just make the characters VIABLE… they aren’t doing us any favors, they are just making the characters useful… But “punishing” us in the process with those incredibly high costs…

I get that some perks are more valuable than others, but they give everyone 4 perks, so they have to support everyone wanting to max out all perks, otherwise what’s the point…

1 Like

I remember the costs used to be even higher and the values gave diminishing returns. The taps used to take longer to collect, didn’t give as much and had less health. At least they adjusted that. I don’t think your suppose to max out all perks and have fort knox every play through. Jack just gives THAT much extra energy to a match.

1 Like

Also generally your builder doesn’t need/doesn’t have perks and killing bosses before to many mobs gives more high paying bosses right? Tho maybe not the best strat for higher difs lol

Now I’m not 100% sure, but I think your math is wrong at the onset here. You are assuming that there is only 300,000 energy available PER TEAM, where I think it’s actually PER PLAYER. So if there’s 300k energy available for 1 player, there should actually be about 1,500,000 energy available in a 5-Player team. And that’s way more than enough energy.

1 Like

There’s also how fast you pick up the energy. After awhile if it sits on the ground long enough it degrades. The sooner it’s picked up you get full value. If you wait till the end of the wave to collect energy it’s lower.

You’re forgetting that I really focused on getting the power before it’s getting halfed. So the math isn’t really right assuming you can get 300k just by pickups. You can get a lot more if you run for them when they’re still worth their original value.

Yet again I don’t know what’s wrong with this math. I mean it’s really only the beginning waves every time that are a bit struggling (depending on character setup). So even if you can’t get all perks maxed for all characters, some of them still have pointless perks anyways. Also defending a tap nowadays isn’t that hard anymore, especially in Frenzy.

EDIT: Also the calculation is off regarding the lockers. They’re more expensive even with a Del. It’s only the build cost that is affected by the card. The passive only kicks in for upgrades, the card doesn’t. So eventually it’s still about 6750 for an upgrade if I’m not mistaken.

I think u might b right there, by using the solo master run as a guide I think he’s forgot than all cash pickups get duplicated for every player

No OP is right. The power you pickup is split by available players. E.g. a Leech gives you 45 power. With 5 players you only get 9 power each. Alone you get the full 45 power for yourselves. With 3 players it would be 15 power each for instance.


I like the perks, especially now that they’re affordable. I’ve been playing Kait a lot recently, now that I’ve got her to max level and most of her cards are 4-6 already. She needs the perks, to do her job properly. I generally deposit 50-75% and spend 50-25% on perks each round. I usually focus on shotgun damage and movement speed, then work on the other 2 if I max them out.

I should say, this is playing Frenzy, and I have yet to ever see a Jack on that mode, let alone see the point in buying a forge. Not sure how I’d approach things on a full 50 waves though.

Hey Omen,

Good breakdown man.

Off topic question, what editing program do you use?

Also as far as power goes it really depends on what your team is wanting to do.

If I do a master run, it’s always with people I know, so I know the load outs they are using, and how best to maximize each player.

As example, if you are running a heavy build but other players keep grabbing and using the heavy weapons, you are not maximizing your play style and will probably lose.

So to sum up. You need to have a pre determined idea of what you need for yourself before starting the match. But yes you don’t need to have all maxed perks but maybe one or two depending on the Hero chosen.

The issue is, everyone has there own idea of what the best play style is. However it’s really up to the current team and map chosen.


I don’t think you get 5 times the enemies when it’s 5 players, not 1, and he did have 2 Swarmak’s on 50, for example, so no, there is no way it’s that much…

There might be some variation in the number of enemies for a number of players, but I don’t believe it’s a straight multiplication. I’ve done many solo rounds of Horde with 30-40 enemies, there is no way that we’d get 200 enemies on that wave if there were 5 players…